Kristen is back for round 2 this week! Kristen joined me a couple weeks back to talk about all things child feeding (if you haven’t checked it out yet, you can listen here!). This time round, we’re diving into some of the challenges listeners are facing while feeding your kids and answering questions you submitted about your specific struggle. We’re going to cover things like;
- What to do if your breastfed toddler is a boob fiend
- Child led ways to support older kids who are quite particular about what they like and don’t like, and are maybe struggling to expand the variety of foods that they’re eating
- How diet culture shows up at the table
- What to do when a kid starts dropping food or goes through a food jag
- What if kids aren’t interested in foods
- How you can support a picky or fussy eater
If you found this episode helpful and want to stay in the loop with new episodes, hit subscribe now!
Show Notes:
Follow Laura on Instagram | Twitter
Follow Kristen on Instagram
Follow Don’t Salt My Game on Instagram
Laura’s Website
Kristen’s Website
Check out my IG post highlighting the main red flags for requiring more support with feeding kids
Check out my IG post about “beige” foods
If you are looking for a professional trained in responsive feeding, you could reach out to myself, Jo Cormack, Julia Wolman, Natalia Stasenko, Katja Rowell or Naureen Hunani
Buy a copy of Just Eat It | How to Just Eat It
Sign up for a Learn with LCIE Course
Buy an Intuitive Eating friendly guide to managing different health concerns
Edited by Joeli Kelly
Transcript:
Kristen Scher
Kids go through phases, adults go through phases. And it you know, we don’t know, it could be another month, and then they’ll start picking up more food, it could be a little bit longer. But in general, like I think some food jags are to be expected especially like adolescents going into puberty, they’re probably going to pick up more calorie heavy foods, because they’re going to go through that, you know, expected and normal weight gain that is needed for puberty to occur. And I think kids’ bodies naturally know which foods to go to, to help in that process of the expected and needed weight gain for puberty.
Laura Thomas
Hey team. Welcome back to Don’t Salt My Game where we are having conversations with Game Changers who are flipping diet culture on its head. I’m Laura Thomas. I’m a Registered Nutritionist who specialises in intuitive eating and anti-diet nutrition. And I’m the author of Just Eat it and How to Just Eat It. Today on the pod, we have Kristen Sher back with us who you met a few weeks ago. We’re going to be answering some of the questions that you had about feeding your kids and the specific challenges you’re facing. So we’re gonna get to that in just a moment. But first, just a quick interlude to tell you about the courses I’m running for health professionals working to support kids to have a better relationship to food and their bodies.
So earlier this year, my colleagues and I released a new continuing professional development course for professionals working with kids, and it’s called Raising Embodied Eaters and it covers everything you as a professional need to know to support kids and their grownups to have a positive relationship with food and their body. We talk about why pressure backfires, why restriction leads to being obsessed with food, why conventional nutrition education, so things like the cubes of sugar or traffic lights activities are really damaging, and what you can do instead. And how you can talk to parents and kids about nutrition in a way that isn’t going to be harmful for them. We also talk about responsive feeding practices, the typical stages in feeding development like food neophobia, growth, and loads loads more. It’s a super comprehensive course with lots of further reading and information. And there are over 11 hours of video content and a monthly Facebook Live with me where you can ask more questions. Equity pricing and student discounts are available. And you can find them on our teachable page at learnwithlcie.teachable.com or hit the link in your show notes. All right, back to the show.
All right team today, Kristen and I are tackling real life problems that you’re experiencing when it comes to feeding your little ones. If you didn’t hear the episode that I did with Kristen a few weeks back, I really recommend going back and having a listen because we give a lot of context for these answers there as well. And for those of you who don’t know Kristen yet, she’s so great. I love her. Kristen is a parenting coach in service to families and how they relate to their bodies and food. She has a background in early childhood education, and is a certified Body Trust provider through Be Nourished and is an intuitive eating counsellor so she can support folks help repair a ruptured relationship to food and their bodies. I got so many great questions on Instagram. So we’re going to cover things like what to do if your breastfed toddler is a boob fiend, child led ways to support older kids who are quite particular about what they like and don’t like, and are maybe struggling to expand the variety of foods that they’re eating, how diet culture shows up at the table, what to do when a kid starts dropping food or goes through a food jag, what if kids aren’t interested in foods, and how you can support a picky or fussy eater. Okay, so I just want to give the usual caveat here that these answers are not intended to replace medical advice. They are just for informational and educational purposes. If you have concerns about your child, then please reach out to their health care provider. As Kristen and I say throughout this episode, with most of these cases, there are some red flags that indicate that they need more support, or at the very least, that we might need more information to make an assessment. So for me, an initial assessment when I’m working with a family is around an hour and a half long. So it’s very, very detailed and very in depth. So an email or an Instagram post is just not going to cut it, it’s not going to provide enough information. So if after listening to this, you still have concerns, then please check out the post that I wrote a few weeks ago highlighting the red flags for requiring more support with feeding kids. I’ve linked to it in the show notes. But the main red flag for me is if you as a parent or a carer feel stressed or worried or anxious, then you deserve more support. I really hope you can trust your instinct if something doesn’t feel right. So I just wanted to mention that both Kristen and I are taking on new clients at the moment for this kind of work around supporting families to have a positive relationship with food and their body, whether that’s because you’re worried that your child’s accepted food list is dwindling. Or you have concerns about their weight or if they’re preoccupied with sweet foods or if you need support around your own relationship with food. You can find both of us linked in the show notes or you can email me on hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk. Okay, I really love this conversation. I hope you find it really useful. And if you’ve got something from it, I’d really appreciate if you could share with a friend or a family member. It would really help me out by getting the word out that the podcast is back and help get it on more people’s radars. So thank you for sharing it. It really means a lot. All right team. Here’s Kristen.
Laura Thomas
Okay, Kristen, we have you back again, I don’t think I’ve had a guest on twice in such quick succession. But I was just so excited to talk to you. And I just really wanted to get your input on these, what I’m calling case studies, kind of questions that people have sent in about specific challenges that they’re experiencing in feeding their kids. And so I’m hoping that we can go through them one by one, and break them down. And I think we’ll kind of notice similar themes recurring. So I’m hoping that people can get that sort of general sense of like, okay, this is something that I want to maybe explore a little bit more or yeah, I notice that I’m doing this or not doing this. And I think it’s really important as well to say that there’s no one size fits all when it comes to feeding kids. And so if this doesn’t feel like it fits for your situation, or you know, what we’re suggesting it like doesn’t work for you, then just leave it, like we won’t be upset. Yeah, so all right, I’m just gonna dive into the first question.
Kristen Scher
Cool.
Laura Thomas
So it says at mealtimes 21 month old has a few bites and then stops, think she’s no longer hungry. So stops, then hungry again. So sorry, I should say this question was kind of received over like Instagram question boxes. Like if it feels a bit disjointed, that’s why. Okay, so then hungry again. So snacks or demands boob. So this is a toddler who is breastfed.
Kristen Scher
Yes.
Laura Thomas
Any suggestions, especially in the context of trying to teach her to trust herself/me to respect her appetite/hunger cues, she seems to like to eat little and often, and this parent feels conflicted as to whether or not that’s okay. And then she goes on to explain that this particular day is her day with her daughter. It doesn’t say that it’s a daughter. But I know that it’s a daughter, because I’ve had a chat with this, this particular parent. And it often, so this particular day is the day with her daughter. And that’s often the hardest. On nursery days, it’s fine as she eats while there, so if she refuses any food after that, then it’s no worries, because she has her breakfast and main meals and snacks there. And then on the weekends, the dad is around. So that helps keep the parent calm, as she explains. So I think what she’s struggling with is on the days where she’s with her daughter and it’s just the two of them there’s kind of what this parent perceives to be an over reliance on breast milk and snacking.
Kristen Scher
Yeah.
Laura Thomas
So can we break this down a little bit? Because I know, I’ve seen you talk about your milky baby. So your first child, I think, was a milk monster. Is that fair to say?
Kristen Scher
Yes. Milk monster. Yes. Yeah.
Laura Thomas
So what were your thoughts reading this?
Kristen Scher
Yeah. So I think, like a couple of things, a reminder that nursing is, yes, it’s there’s for nutrition/hydration, but also a huge portion of, you know, chest feeding is comfort and connection. And so like, I feel like if your kid is like really wanting to have that time with you, then like, that’s a cue to like, think of it less about like, oh my gosh, they’re gonna fill up on all this milk, especially at that age, I can’t imagine that the amount of milk that the baby, that the toddler is getting is anywhere as close to what their nutritional like, I think that they’re probably getting their nutrition fine in the snacks and the meals, even if it seems like they’re not eating a lot. I don’t think it’s like, you’re not competing for boob with food and that thinking of it more as connection and comfort and just, you know, cosy, cosy mama time will help, like lessen the stress and the fact that like, you know that the kid eats fine on other days with other people and other circumstances. I think that that rather than being a like, oh my gosh, what’s wrong when they’re with me, think about it more of like, okay, they’re, they’re fine. They are a flexible eater. They are like, you know, a competent eater. They know how to eat in different situations. And they know that with me, in addition to, you know, foods, they also get this added bonus of some milk, you know, milk, hormones, you know,
Laura Thomas
Antibodies
Kristen Scher
Antibodies, I’m like what was word for the, yeah, antibodies, and all that. So, yeah, and I just want to say, I totally understand I nursed Clare, Clarabelle would not give up the boob, I finally cut her off two months before she turned three. So I get it, but a big part of that was just, she just loved the cosy time. Even after nursing, she’s still just like, mom, like, let me just hold you like, and, like, just wants to like, pet my neck, I just want to be close, so.
Laura Thomas
I get it, I get it. And I just, I really resonate with this parent’s struggle and the confusion and, and sort of sifting their way through conflicting feelings and thoughts and sort of this, this push and pull of like, well, if I’m feeding milk, I was gonna say responsibly, but I mean, responsively I think I did that in our last episode as well, responsively that, am I damaging their innate hunger and satiety cues? Am I not giving them the opportunity to kind of, you know, learn, you know, you know, am I just encouraging grazing basically, rather than this, you know, feeling into hunger and then fullness. And I’m like, I’m totally I’ve totally been through this with with Avery as well, he’s going on, he’s 23 months almost, and is a milk fiend, absolute fiend for the boob. And it used to really, really stress me out, because it didn’t, you know, perfectly align with division of responsibility. And I had to really take a step back and just give myself a break first and foremost. And secondly, just kind of actually think of, if we think about it through the lens of the division of responsibility, if we look really closely at what Ellyn Sattar says there, is that toddlers are only becoming responsible for the when in terms of, sorry, parents are only becoming responsible for the when of feeding. And so what that means is that we didn’t talk about this last time, but the division of responsibility looks slightly different in each of the stages of feeding. So in milk feeding, the baby is responsible for basically everything apart from the what. So the parent decides, is it breast milk? Is it formula milk? And then the baby decides the when, the where, the how, much the if, right? So they do all of that work.
Kristen Scher
Yeah.
Laura Thomas
And so it’s only in the toddler kind of years, that we begin to see that shift, where the parent takes responsibility for the when. And so, especially with a breastfed kiddo, who you know, where the parent is feeding on demand, as it were, then that might not happen until a little bit later on. And on I don’t think that anyone is doing, causing any harm or doing anything wrong. There’s no irreparable damage. I think the other thing to remember with toddlers who, who are, you know, grazing quite frequently is that their bellies are really small, and they can’t hold a tonne of food. So, you know, it might be that they just need that little and often approach. What has helped me and so I’ll, I’ll offer it here in case it’s useful for anyone else is kind of this mantra of like, solids on a schedule milk on demand.
Kristen Scher
I love that. Yep.
Laura Thomas
So offering, you know, those regular predictable, scheduled snacks that we, and meals that we talked about last time, and then offering milk, as in when the baby asks, or the toddler asks or the baby toddler whoever. And, you know, with the caveat as well, that you can also set nursing boundaries too. If that’s, you know, not, if that’s something that you want to start to move back from which you absolutely don’t have to I don’t think if that’s not something you want to, but you could, for example, say okay, we have our meal, and then after that we have milk, and that’s our time for milk or, you know, you have milk instead of a scheduled snack, let’s say and that, you know, have that as a set sort of time or, you know, put limits around that is basically what I’m saying. But I don’t think that that’s necessary. The other thing that I wanted to offer here, and this is me just kind of like coming from a purely nutritional perspective, because I think that people often worry that if toddlers are younger kids aren’t having or are having a lot of milk that they’re not getting enough nutrition. So there’s this study from, I think it’s 2001. It’s quite an old study. But what they found is that for every sort of 450mls of breast milk, it provides 29% of energy requirements 43% of protein requirements, 36% of calcium requirements, 75% vitamin A, 76%, of folate, 94% of vitamin B12, and 60% of vitamin C, in that second year. Okay? So like, it’s milk is not a, it’s not bad food, right? We don’t use that language around food, but there’s lots of nutrition in there. And so it can be a great sort of supplement to the solid foods that they’re eating. So, I don’t know, like, did you have anything that that you wanted to add to that?
Kristen Scher
Just I love, I love the like snacks on a schedule, boob on demand. And like looking back, I’m like, oh, that’s totally what we were doing, you know, that like meals and the snacks with Clara were total, you know, in that rhythm, and then boob on demand. And then as Clara got older, when I was more wanting to wean, or when it just became like, you know, a two and a half year old in public, you get looks from people, and that’s fine, whatever, most of the time, I just like whipped out my boob and, you know, flipped them the bird or whatever. But, but also it’s it’s kind of unmanageable, you know, she’s like running around coming over here, running, and then she wants like, it just it would get a little. I wanted to wean a little yeah, we would do like, okay, when you wake up we have milk, we would breastfeed for every nap. And at bedtime. So kind of ended up being when we were home or like getting in the car anyway. But like it does kind of, as they age kind of towards weaning, it sort of falls into a rhythm as well, the breastfeeding does.
Laura Thomas
Yeah.
Kristen Scher
But yeah, I think that that’s, that’s great. And I think, yeah, you’re right, like the milk is a wonderful nutritional food. And it’s not, it’s not a filler. It’s not like just filling them up so that they don’t get other things like you said, there are so many vitamins and minerals in there that they probably aren’t going to get from the stuff that, that age like they love, they love carbs, they love goldfish, like they love all these other things. But maybe they’re not loving the wide range that they loved when they were a little bit younger. Like that often happens for little kids, when they first starting eating food are all about the broccoli and the fish and the you know, Clara loved scallions like so much. And then they hit they hit like 18 months, 18, 20 months. And then it was just like they just wanted pasta and some meat and cheese. Like they kind of narrow to those safe, predictable foods, which is like a natural instinct. But so the fact that like all those other vitamins and minerals and the milk, they’re only adding they’re not detracting.
Laura Thomas
And I think that you kind of touched on something there as well, that is so important, which is that the weaning process is developmental. And I just want to say before I go any further because I know that conversations around chest or breast feeding and formula milk can become so emotive and I am not here for any formula shaming, I’m not here for any, you know, judging or shaming of, you know, early, not early termination of breastfeeding. But you know, I guess what I’m trying to say is that there’s a tonne a tonne, a tonne a tonne tonne of pressure to breastfeed, and then there’s a tonne more pressure to stop breastfeeding at 12 months, because, you know, there’s this societal judgement that over 12 months, breastfeeding is not acceptable. So there’s this like, weird double standard thing going on there. But that for most kiddos, they need to kind of learn to not need the boob anymore, right? It’s a developmental thing in the same way that they learn how to sleep, or they go through crawling than walking. For a lot of kiddos nursing is helping them develop well, it’s co-regulation, right? So it’s helping them develop their own capacity to self soothe. And most toddlers just don’t have that. So they will get there. But they need that time and that space and that support. And there are obviously other ways that you can co-regulate with them. It doesn’t have to be breastfeeding, but it is a great option and a great parenting tool if you have it available to you. So I don’t know that was just a kind of train of consciousness. I hope that that sort of somewhat made sense.
Kristen Scher
No I think that that makes sense. And I think also just to like you know, for people who are formula feeding like it’s that’s like your, when we’re when we’re saying, Oh, it’s this great additional nutritional thing to add, like, Don’t worry, if you’re formula feeding. It’s also not such a big difference that there’s anything, you know, I’m just saying that we were talking so much about the benefits of extended breastfeeding. Most people, you know, switch from formula to like regular milk or whatever. And I just wanted to be clear that like, it’s not so what am I trying to say? Don’t worry if you are, if your kid is not getting breast milk after one is what I’m saying.
Laura Thomas
Well let’s be real that like milk, just whether it’s breast milk, or cow’s milk, or some kind of milk alternative like that, you know, if you think about the, the toddler food pyramid, like milk makes up that for most kids, unofficially, the sort of bottom rung of that toddler food pyramid, and it often gets demonised, often gets vilified. And I’m not saying that, I don’t want to give the impression that, you know, it’s just let your kid have as much milk as they want in unlimited quantities. But at the same time, you know, even if it’s cow’s milk, I think like something like half a cup of cow’s milk provides, like almost all of their protein requirements for the day. So again, it’s not there’s nothing wrong with milk being, you know, a sizable portion of a kiddos diet, whether that’s coming from cow’s milk or, or breast milk, and I know there’s the hypothetical risk of iron deficiency, but just you know, make sure that they’re, you know, getting sources of iron from from other foods. In the UK, the good thing is that carbohydrates are fortified. Most white carbohydrates are fortified with iron. So like your Weetabix, your Ready Brek, your, you know, white Hovis, toast, like it’s all fortified with iron. So like, let’s, there’s just a lot of nutritionism in conversations around feeding kids and healthism. And I think we just all need to take a deep breath and stand back and just, you know, look at our kids, do they have good energy levels? Are they you know, I was gonna say sleeping well, but you know, it’s toddlers. So let’s not go there. You know, are they growing and developing as you would expect them on their kind of, on their trajectory on their growth curve, on their timeline for development, which is different for all kids. Just like look at your kid, if they’re doing okay, then just continue to give them lots of variety as much as you can, take the pressure off and give them some autonomy around feeding, which I think we’re going to get into in a little bit so I’m not going to go too far down that track right now. But yeah, would you add anything to that?
Kristen Scher
The only thing I’d add is that and then if you are concerned about them, go to your paediatrician, don’t just start cutting off, you know, don’t just Okay, now I’m gonna wean clearly they’re not getting enough food, you know what I mean? Like, go to the professional, don’t try to figure out a iron deficiency or something on your own. That’s the other thing that I would add.
Laura Thomas
100% 100% Yeah, any concerns then reach out to a trusted professional. I mean, the tricky thing is that, that some doctors, and I’ve heard some horrific stories from clients that I’ve worked with about things that their, their GPs, like their primary care doctors have said to them about feeding. And so they’re not always the most reliable source, unfortunately. But if you can find someone who has training in responsive feeding practices, I think that’s often the best bet. And I can link to some people in the show notes like in the UK, and in the US, that kind of fit that that bill. So different professionals can be trained in responsive feeding. So it could be, you could have a GP that’s trained in responsive feeding, you could have a like, I’m trained in responsive feeding, you could have a dietician, it could be a speech and language therapist, it could be an occupational therapist, there’s a lot of different professionals that have additional training in feeding. So if you have concerns, like look out for responsive feeding, those are, I don’t want to say it’s like a guarantee, because it’s not always and you get some really shitty responsive, people that use responsive feeding terminology, but you know that it’s a clue, right? And obviously, talk to that person and see if you feel like you’re a good fit, and if they kind of get you and validate your concerns.
Kristen Scher
Right.
Laura Thomas
All right.
Kristen Scher
Cool. Live this tree, move on?
Laura Thomas
Moving on. Yeah, we’re, we’re supposed to try and fit quite a few in here.
Kristen Scher
Okay we’ll try to rapid fire them out this time.
Laura Thomas
Yeah, we will.
Kristen Scher
It’s hard with you know, breast milk. Yeah.
Laura Thomas
Okay. So this next parent says, I’ll try and be succinct, laughing face. Seb is eight and attens school full time. He has a younger sibling, six, who doesn’t experience the same issues. I think he has ADHD, but it’s not confirmed. He has always been certain about the foods that he will and will not eat but is being, is becoming more limited as he gets older. When he was young, we restricted sugar until I learned about intuitive eating. But from about three, he has had unlimited access to all foods. We did baby led weaning and offered a big variety. Currently, he will eat plain carbs, so rice, pasta, chips, bread items, cereal with milk, some meats, sausages, bacon, fruits, cucumber, apple, watermelon, grapes, berries, and sometimes carrots. He loves sweet foods, such as sweets, chocolate, biscuits, and we try to give him unlimited access to them within our budget. I do worry whether he eats enough and if his food is varied enough. At the moment, he takes a lunchbox to school with foods I know he will eat. And at dinner, we have plates with sections, which I tried to put a variety in, some foods I know he will eat and some that he can taste if he wants. But I constantly worry that I’m not doing enough to nourish and support him with his food. Your initial thoughts on that, Kristen?
Kristen Scher
My initial thoughts are if you have access to, you know, going to get screened for a sensory issue or like you said, like, like they mentioned, maybe ADHD or something. If you have access to it, I think, you know, being able to know what resources and tools are at your disposal will only help. So if that’s something that there, you know, that they can do, I would say maybe maybe do that first. But also I feel like you know, so eight is where you know, you’re about to hit puberty. To me, those are all foods that are very, like those are all very common kid like, kid happy, kid friendly foods. Those are all foods that are pretty predictable in taste, in texture and all those things that kids look for. And honestly, I’m like, I’m thinking back on the foods that they’re saying, I’m like, I think you’re doing a great job like like that there is variety in that. Just because it’s not the same variety, as an adult would have. It’s not that they’re just eating, you know, crackers and pasta, which some kids do, some kids you know, you know, do have a more,
Laura Thomas
Limited.
Kristen Scher
Yeah. And so the fact that there is also a veg, there is also fruit, there is you know, so I, I’d say kind of take a deep breath. They’re getting everything I think that they need in there, there’s protein. And that said, I also just want to say like I totally identify with that, that Clara has become more limited in the last few months. And I’m like, Oh, this drives me nuts. But the thing is, you also have to remember like don’t make it a big deal, that will only intensify or like make them hold on to that kind of pickiness harder, kids go through phases, adults go through phases. And it you know, we don’t know, it could be another month, and then they’ll start picking up more food, it could be a little bit longer. But in general, like I think some food jags are to be expected especially like adolescents going into puberty, they’re probably going to pick up more calorie heavy foods, because they’re going to go through that, you know, expected and normal weight gain that is needed for puberty to occur. And I think kids bodies naturally know which foods to go to, to help in that process of the expected and needed weight gain for puberty.
Laura Thomas
Such an important point. And I think thank you, thank you, thank you for normalising weight gain around puberty because it’s often at an age, you know, as kids bodies start to shift and change and develop. And they typically start laying down fat stores to go through that really energy intensive process around puberty, that that’s when parents start to restrict and put their kids on diets. And that is just terrifying to me, because it’s also the point at which a lot of girls in particular but all kids are particularly vulnerable to eating disorders. So that’s kind of an aside, but I just wanted to thank you for naming that. You also use this term, which we don’t really use in the UK. So I wanted to just unpack it a little bit because you used it last time as well. And I didn’t,
Kristen Scher
What is it?
Laura Thomas
Food jag.
Kristen Scher
Ohhhh.
Laura Thomas
So I’m familiar with it because I trained in the US, but do you want to explain for listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with that terminology what a food jag is?
Kristen Scher
Yeah, I’m like, I don’t know if I know the dictionary term but like, it’s when you get in a little food funk, a little food phase, where, especially for you know, for kids like, currently my daughter has a food jag around sauce on her pasta. A kid who enjoys pasta with sauce mixed together her whole life, and she decides there will be no sauce on her pasta. And so I put it in a little, you know, ramekin on the side. Grownups go through it too, where like,
Laura Thomas
You get burned out on a food,
Kristen Scher
You get burned out on a food, you get burned out, yeah, exactly. You get burned out on the food, you’re just not into it anymore for a minute, for a month, for you know, for a little bit. And then usually you come back around to it. So yeah, does that…?
Laura Thomas
Yeah. And I think some, the sort of a trap that a parent can sometimes fall into, and understandably so you can kind of just write it off and be like, Okay, well, this kid doesn’t like this food anymore. So I’m just not going to buy it, I’m not going to serve it, I’m not going to put it out, I’m not going to expose them to it. And that is the best way, the like fast track to getting them to not eat it again, is if you stop serving it.
Kristen Scher
It reinforces it.
Laura Thomas
Yeah. And so I just want to say like, I know that there, obviously, there are constraints around budget and food waste, and I’m absolutely not discounting any of that stuff. But if you can continue to expose them to it in some way, shape, or form that will help them stay familiar with it. And then, you know, I can’t predict how many exposures it’s going to take. But that, you know, you have to try it periodically, because they might surprise you. I remember Avery went through a phase of not touching a blueberry for like six months. And then he was just standing at the counter one day and just start shovelling them in his face I had to be like, Whoa, those are for my breakfast, buddy. So, yeah, like they do stuff like that.
Kristen Scher
Right. And you never know when a jag will end. Exactly. So just keep, I think you’re right, that people will be like, Okay, I guess that’s out. Now, I’m not going to serve, you know, quesadillas, or whatever it is. Just keep, keep making it, keep ordering it and keep yeah, having them see that it’s there.
Laura Thomas
And I just want to go back to this, like this case study. So the first thing I want to say is I completely agree with you. There are some things in here, which suggests to me that it probably warrants follow up with a professional, you know, there might be absolutely, it might all check out absolutely fine. But you know, if you as a parent feel concerned or stressed or worried, or in this, this parent says that they are worried, then that is reason enough to seek out additional support. The couple of things in there that I just thought, I thought were okay, so actually, first thing that I recommended to this, this parent is yet getting some talking to someone, and also picking up the book Extreme Picky Eating by Katja Rowell and Jenny McGlothlin. They are, you know, really well versed, really experienced in working with kids who have very, very limited diets, they may also have sensory processing differences, or being neurodivergent. So that would be the book that I would recommend. They definitely draw on division of responsibility and intuitve eating, you know, they, they’re very anti diet culture. So definitely the best resource I would say out there for parents who want to approach these problems from that perspective. And there are other books that are very, you know, or other resources, I should say that kind of are a bit more not in line with intuitive eating. Yeah, so this book is very responsive. Katja Rowell is one of the people that kind of is leads the responsive feeding movement. I hope to have her on the podcast at some point anyway. Okay, so I recommended that book and I’ll link to that in the show notes. There were a couple of things that stood out to me in in this first of all, this parent, I picked up on the fact that they said we did baby led weaning and they didn’t say it specifically or explicitly, but there’s such a common narrative that baby led weaning prevents picky eating, and that is such complete and utter bullshit that is like just not substantiated by any evidence. It’s also so blaming of like it, you know, what I have to say is that fussy or picky or faddy or however you whatever you want to call it, eating is a developmental phase that most children will go through, you cannot prevent it because it’s hardwired into their biology to, at some point have a more limited or reduced diet. So I just want to say that you, you know, it doesn’t matter if you do purees. It doesn’t matter if you do you know, finger foods, like your child will more than likely still go through this food neophobic phase. And so we don’t need the additional blame and judgement of saying, oh, yeah, well, you you didn’t, you didn’t do baby led weaning, right, so of course, your child is a fussy eater, or that kind of, I see. Yeah, this desperation from a lot of parents of like, well, I but I did everything right, I did. I followed all the frickin rules. So why is my kids still a picky eater in inverted commas? So I just wanted to like, put that side note in.
Kristen Scher
Oh, no, I love that you pointed that out. That comes up in a lot of like, questions on Instagram and Q&As, what about baby led weating, and I’m like, It’s a fine way to feed your kid, it’s not the be all end all. And I hate that like, in the book, it also talks about like, preventing the O word, you know, like, overweight. I’m like, you know, are you trying to teach your kid how to feed themselves? Or are you trying to guarantee a thin vegetable eating child. Like, you know, try to check, really check in with yourself and see what the end goal is. Because one of them is not based in, in reality, or science, you know?
Laura Thomas
Yeah, I really, I mean, yeah, I have, there’s so many problems with that narrative. Maybe I need to do a whole episode on that at some point. Okay, so a couple of thoughts on this this case, I would definitely, I think what you said is absolutely spot on that actually, there is variety there. And there’s a good balance of different foods, what I would want to support this particular parent with, is avoiding a further narrowing of the diet so that we, what I wouldn’t want is to end up in a situation where, you know, for whatever reason, some of these foods start to drop off their accepted food list. And then that variety becomes more and more and more limited. So some things that I would be thinking about, are like non pressured food play or food exploration, that is led by the child that doesn’t have the agenda of like, I want you to eat this food, you know, if we grow these strawberries, it’s because I want you to eat the strawberries at the end. Think of it more from the perspective of like, teaching and exploring, you know, there’s, like, there’s science in there, there’s probably some maths in there, there’s probably, you know, like, I don’t know, teaching them about nature and life cycles, and all of that kind of stuff, that are kind of worthy in and of themselves. Rather than having this like agenda of they will eat that food, I was also thinking about increased autonomy, because what they said is that they plate the food for the kiddo. And that I think can, it’s tricky, because for some kids, especially like, at the end of a long day, if they’re burnt out from school and exhausted, they might need help getting stuff on the plate. But for other kids, especially kids who have maybe strong sensory preferences, or you know, are not comfortable with certain foods being on their plate, then having all the foods out on the table, family style, or the counter or wherever you serve your food from and letting them serve themselves, letting them decide what and how much goes on their plate. I think that can be a really powerful tool. So that’d be something else I’d be thinking about, as well as understanding that sensory profile and finding foods that fit or like finding variety within food groups. So like, let’s say they like chicken nuggets for example. Could we you know, how did they get on with like, another breaded meat situation like a fish finger fish stick or whatever you want to call it? Or, you know, like some other kind of breaded chicken situation, for example. So yeah, there are lots of ways that you could go with that. But I think maybe working alongside someone who has some some training and experience in these kinds of approaches. Yeah. Anything else you wanted to say on that?
Kristen Scher
No, I love that. I yeah, I missed, somehow I missed the part that they’re playing it but yeah, for an eight year old? Definitely. They’re wanting more autonomy.
Laura Thomas
For sure. For sure. Sure. I find that in my almost two year old. I’ve like I resisted for the longest time doing family style meals because it’s a ballache right, it’s pain in the ass.
Kristen Scher
So many dishes.
Laura Thomas
So many dishes. But it actually works or it helps. It really helps.
Kristen Scher
It really does. Yeah, exactly.
Laura Thomas
So it’s a thing for a reason.
Kristen Scher
Yeah, exactly.
Laura Thomas
Okay, let’s try to power some. I think some of these other ones will be a bit more straightforward. So let’s try to power through them. Okay, my just turned four year old won’t touch fruit slash veg. She eats sweet potato, sweet corn, banana, and sometimes grapes. She started preschool after Easter, and will be there for snack time. We went yesterday for a taster. And they just brought out a big bowl of bananas, pears, satsumas, and carrots, and the other children took one each, whereas she just had her milk. So it will be interesting to see if her attitude to those changes once she sees other children eating, she has an 18 month old brother who’s a bit picky, but still eats more variety than she does. All right, let’s hear your thoughts on this one, Kristin.
Kristen Scher
So I’d say you just named fruit and veg that she’s eating, she’s eating fruit and veg. I think it’s where, you know, you have to pull out the parent agenda, as we talked about the other time that, you know, the idea of the foods we want our kids to eat are not always going to be most most often are not going to be the reality of what they like to eat. And that that’s okay. And so the other added aspect, like I feel for the parent, I can totally see myself getting tripped up by all these other kids are eating these things. What’s wrong with my kid? Or what did I do wrong? Why do I have that picky eater, I’ve totally gone there with other things related to my kid. And so I totally feel that and I get that. And I think that it’s probably in that situation, it wasn’t the food because the food, they had the foods that are safe foods in that bowl, but I don’t know about you. But if I showed up somewhere with a whole bunch of new people, and they put out a big bowl, and like everybody else was grabbing at it, that it could be a little scary, a little intimidating, just a little overwhelming for kiddos, especially if that’s their, like, first time at the school. And so it makes sense that they just say, you know, drink the milk, that was their designated milk. Like there’s also a lot of social stuff going on with that example. So and I, you know, I’m sure as your kiddo gets, you know, used to the school used to the other kids used to that family style presentation, they will, as they feel safe enough, they will be able to reach out and get the banana or the grapes that the foods that they eat. And I think, you know, those those are the foods that the parent mentioned, are foods that I imagine would be offered kind of often, those are pretty classic foods that kids seem to like, but there’s it’s also worth mentioning to the you know, to the school that like, you know, these are these are my kiddos favourite foods, just so that that they know.
Laura Thomas
Yeah, yeah, I think my thoughts were exactly the same as yours in terms of, you know, it kind of made me laugh when I first read it, it was like, my kid won’t touch fruit or veg, here’s a bunch of fruit and veg that they’ll eat, it just goes to show how deeply, deeply deeply ingrained diet culture is in us to think that, you know, these four or five fruits and vegetables that they eat are not good enough, or that you know that it’s not perfect, you know, rainbow spectrum of fruits and vegetables. So therefore, my kid is, you know, gonna get deficient in something, or I don’t know that there’s this, there’s this sense that it needs to be perfect that their kid needs to be to eat perfectly in order to, you know, grow and develop as we would expect them to. And yeah, so I guess I was just thinking about how much diet culture infiltrates our impression of, you know, how our kids are eating.
Kristen Scher
Yeah, and what’s expected.
Laura Thomas
Yeah. And I also thought about this piece around, you know, felt safety at the, at the, the, you know, the, the snack table whatever, you know, this was their first time at this daycare, as you’ve said, and, of course, they’re going to default back to something that feels comforting and familiar and safe, because everything else around them is really new and unsafe, on an emotional kind of level. So, you know, not that they were immediately physically in danger, but they’re, you know, they were perceiving that this is new, unfamiliar environment so, I’m going to, and that also kills appetite, you know, that, that really kills appetite. So, I think, take the long view, notice what happens, you know, as this kid, you know, settles more into their day care, do they become, you know, more comfortable with eating and, you know, the, the family style meal that they seem to be offering and, yeah, do they, you know, acclimate to this new environment. Yeah, I think we’re pretty much just on the same page with that one.
Kristen Scher
Totally.
Laura Thomas
All right, three year old, very picky, small amount of foods trusted, everything else is yucky. Will sometimes lick or try minute bites of food that they are constantly exposed to. But none so far have been added to her safe list. Tries more at nursery, but heavily reliant on a certain brand of milk, at home and at nursery. Often wants warm milk as a comfort when sad, which we try and avoid. Your thoughts on this.
Kristen Scher
I feel like I need to know a little bit more. If they were like with me as a client, I would probably like to have them list off all the foods that are safe foods, because oftentimes, like we just saw, in the last case study, parents think it’s really limited. And then we start, they’re telling me what they eat. And all of a sudden, we’re on a second page, you know, it’s not actually limited as they think. So this one’s kind of a little tricky, just because I feel like I need more information, I need to know how limited the safe food list is. And I wanted to know, I want to know, the circumstances around licking or smelling of foods. Is this something that they’re being asked to do? Some parents do the like, exploration taste or something. And that could be affecting what they’re eating at home negatively. So I was a little curious as to you know, who is initiating the licks, or, you know, taste or touching of a new food. And, you know, ideally, it would just be self-led. If that’s the case. And if that’s the case, like whoa, that’s, that’s like one step away from trying foods, if there is self initiating licking a food that they’re not sure about. That is a really great exploration, if it’s self led, like, I would be like, really impressed if my kid was just like down to lick things. So so this one’s a little hard, just because I kind of want to know more information. Yeah.
Laura Thomas
I agree, it’s hard to tell from what’s going on here with without doing like, I want to, with all of these, I just want to get in there and do a full assessment. But, you know, we’re making a lot of assumptions here as well. The kind of red flag in this one for me was around the reliance on a certain brand of milk. So when kids are very brand specific when, you know, for example, you know, they would drink this brand of milk, but then if that, if the packaging changed, for example, when it was Christmas time, and they came up with like Christmas packaging, and they they started rejecting, even though it’s exact same milk, just because there was a change in packaging, if they started rejecting that, that’s a big red flag for me. If they can tell, like if you were to pour that milk into a glass, and they could tell that milk apart from like, a, you know, an off brand of milk, just by taste or just by sight alone, then, then again, I would be that would be kind of something that would warrant a bit further exploration, because that would tell me that there’s something sensory going on. That they’re really there, they have really specific sensory preferences around certain foods. And so I would want to explore that a little bit more. But yeah, so and again, but again, it’s hard to know, like, how reliant is this kid on milk? Like we were saying before, milk in and of itself is not a bad food. And, you know, there’s nothing wrong with having foods that bring us comfort and sense of security. So I don’t think there’s inherently anything wrong with that. But we would want to see what’s the bigger picture? What’s the overall picture look like? And again, yeah, I was thinking about pressure a lot with this one, which is, is what you were getting at as well. You know, pressure can come in all kinds of ways. And I started this little mini kind of series on my Instagram about different forms of pressure, like subtle pressure that, that parents maybe don’t even realise that they’re applying. And I suppose just to take a step back, the problem is that sometimes pressure in the short term can get kids to eat something. But studies have shown that over the long term, the more a kid is pressured to eat a particular food, the less likely that they are to actually incorporate that food into their diet when they get older. And also it can, you know, removes a sense of autonomy and independence from their eating, and so they’re much more likely to push back because kids, especially toddlers around this age, they’re desperate for autonomy and if they I think that, you know, well, one of the few places that they can get autonomy is in feeding, right? They can literally just be like, Nope, I’m not going to put that in my body. And unless you’re willing to force feed them, which most parents aren’t, then there’s not much you can do about that. So it’s one place that they can get some autonomy. So I’m, again, thinking about ways that you can bring autonomy into, you know, to the table, letting them serve themselves, letting them make decisions, if, you know, if they’re, you’re offering them some fruit. And actually, you don’t really care what fruit they have, so long as they have, you know, some fruit that you’re offering. Let them make that decision. So bringing some autonomy and then removing sources of pressure. So things like, you know, food hype or food PR. Oh, you know, this carrot is so good for your eyes. It helps you see in the dark. That’s pressure. You know, this milk helps you grow big, strong bones. That’s pressure. So that’s what I mean by like food PR. Well done. You took another bite or yeah, you tried that? That’s pressure. No, thank you bite. That’s pressure. Help me out Kristen. What are other forms of pressure?
Kristen Scher
Touching. Can you just touch the cucumber? That’s pressure. Yeah. Smelling? Licking? What else.
Laura Thomas
If you try it, I know you’ll like it. Even if that is true.
Kristen Scher
You used to eat this. You used to have this all the time, when you were little you liked this.
Laura Thomas
Your sister’s having this.
Kristen Scher
Right, exactly. All those things, yes, totally.
Laura Thomas
And we’ve all done it. Don’t get me wrong,
Kristen Scher
Oh, yeah, I think I did that, like two nights ago. What do you mean? With the tomato sauce. You always eat tomato sauce. Yeah, totally. Because it’s also confusing and confounding for adults to have something change so randomly, and so without, like, reason. You know, we’re very logical kids are not. And it doesn’t have to make sense to us for it to be true for them.
Laura Thomas
I think. Because it can be difficult to figure out what’s pressure and what’s not. And all kids have a different sort of like, threshold, or tolerance for pressure. So some kids, again, studies have shown that if you say to some kids like try a bite, they’ll try a bite, they’ll get on with it, it’s not a big deal. For other kids, if you say try a bite, that’s going to make them not touch that meal, not eat anything, even the foods that are normally preferred, or safe foods, they’re just going to have, like it’s too much, not going to eat anything gonna get down from the table might even, you know, have a meltdown, if that’s, you know, something that happens for those kids. So what I often say is, like, how would you feel if another adult was saying that to you? Right? Kristen, try this broccoli. Just try it, I know you like it. Like, how would you feel if I was sitting next to you and said that to you? You would like take the fork and stab my eye out.
Kristen Scher
Can you just lick the brussel sprout Laura?
Laura Thomas
Just lick it.
Kristen Scher
Yeah, totally. I love that. That’s a great, a great tool. How would I feel if someone was saying this to me?
Laura Thomas
And they also sense your pressure, they sense your desperation and your anxiety. So you just needs like, it’s so hard, don’t get me wrong. It’s so so, so hard, and like, I’m saying this to myself as much as to everyone else, but like, bite your tongue. Don’t look at the food, don’t look at how much they’re eating. Just like talk about something else. Think about something else. Like sing songs. If that’s, you know, feels good for your family and fits with your situation. Just like try not to bring attention to what they’re doing. And just like, see what happens when you just completely sit on your hands?
Kristen Scher
Totally. I love that. I just wanted to bring, go back one second about milk. There’s nothing wrong with a little bit of warm milk for comfort. I think a good way to check like, is this a big deal and we need to get it like screened is if you are out in public and your kid gets hurt at the playground, is it to the point where they will not calm down until you’ve gone home and made them warm milk? Or are they adaptable in situations like that? Like, you know, will they have the milk that comes with the Happy Meal, even though that’s a different brand of milk when you’re out and about or is the kind of thing where you’re carrying that brand of milk around? If you’re carrying that brand of milk around, then it’s time to go be screened for something. So that’s, is it going to totally interrupt your day if it’s not on hand? That’s a red flag.
Laura Thomas
That’s, that’s a really, really, really helpful way of, of looking at it. If you don’t have access to that food, or that drink, or whatever it is, is it going to be like completely derail your whole day and you’re going to have to go back home and get that or carry it with you? Yes. Such a helpful way of thinking about it.
Kristen Scher
And not to say that they’re like, oh, they won’t get upset when they’re out and about, but can you like, I see that you want that milk. I know that that’s hard. You know, can we, can we do XYZ? Can we have a cuddle? You know, are you able to redirect them or not?
Laura Thomas
Yeah, that whole co-regulation piece, Can you help them? Can you soothe them and settle them without that very specific thing? Or is it just gonna be like, game over for the rest of the day? Okay, thank you. All right, let’s, I think let’s try and do one or two more, let’s see how we get on. I’ve got a seven year old who is actually very good at trying food, and will willingly give everything a go. The issue I’m finding is that recently, he doesn’t seem to actually really like anything he’s eating. It seems to almost frustrate him too. And even if it is something he likes, he seems to just pick at it. He’s always been a bit of a snacker, eating little and often, but he’s a very active boy, plays a lot of football, and I’m worried he’s not actually consuming enough nowadays.
Kristen Scher
This one’s interesting. I don’t, it’s not as you know, I have people come to me with a lot of very common issues. And I’d say having a kid who just can’t enjoy, like, can’t find foods that they enjoy is not common, so that that’s a little mmhm to me. Um, I…How old was the kid again?
Laura Thomas
Seven.
Kristen Scher
Seven. That’s little. I think I’d probably like dig in a little bit more just asking, like, what does a day look like? What do they eat in a day? What are the foods they’re eating? Do they really not like anything? Or do they not like foods that the parent, like, are there other foods that they really like, but that, you know, maybe are not in the house or not in the rotation? So a little clarification, but, you know, there’s, there’s also like, you know, there’s super tasters where like, like people, some there are some people who are really sensitive to taste things. But again, those are things that like, I would want to go to, yeah, get screened for a sensory thing? Or, you know, I don’t know, it just it makes me think like, what are they tasting? Like, when you ask them what something tastes like? Are they able to identify like, sweet, sour? Or do they say like, oh, everything tastes like metal or something, you know, like, there might be something going on is what I’m thinking. But it’s also hard, hard to know, when it’s the parent typing and not the seven year old.
Laura Thomas
Yeah, yeah, I would definitely want to understand a bit better what this kid’s experiences of eating and you know, how attuned they are to their own hunger and fullness cues, which obviously, we’re not, we need a lot more information than what we’re getting in this particular question. But one, one sort of immediate thing that jumps out to me is that this parent says that they are naturally a snacker, which, as we discussed in the last episode isn’t inherently a problem. But I would want to know, are there clearly defined meals and snack times? Or is this kid you know, just, you know, coming, picking something, going away again, coming back 5, 10 minutes, and then doing that for like, two or three hours, versus having those more defined, predictable, yeah, because we need to give kids an opportunity to feel gentle hunger, before they’re actually going to eat and quelle surprise food tastes better when you’re hungry. Right? So I would want to understand a bit better if that flexible structure and support was in place first and foremost. And then yeah, to speak to your point. Food needs to be delicious for kids to want to eat it. So, you know, I’m thinking about like, how could you make food more interesting? Or again, are we coming at it from this like diet culture healthified you know, Instagram kid foodie, perfect idea of what feeding children should look like. Do we have like sprinkles? Do we have like delicious dressings and dips? Do we have like fun toppings. Do, you know how are, you know, does this kid have any decision making power in terms of the foods that they’re allowed to eat? I think they do based on what this parent has said, I’m just, these are like hypothetical questions that I would want to get to the bottom of. And I think really what the point that you were making is, are, they do they have access to fun foods?
Kristen Scher
Yeah. Regularly, reliably. And also, you know, they’re saying they play a lot of football. And it sounds like they’re saying that they play, they play well. They’re not, they don’t seem tired. They don’t, you know, like, there, there would be, if they’re not able to play football, you know, I’d be like, okay, they’re not getting enough. But maybe they’re getting enough nutrition. It’s just not of the foods, yeah, that like, are at dinnertime or something, like you’re saying, Are they snacking on things throughout the day, if that’s the case, try to bring those snacks to include them at the meal. So that’s they’re getting those fun foods that they like, while they’re also exposed to other foods they might eat. And yeah, like, I don’t know, I just keep thinking chocolate milk, too, because like, that’s a really great thing for kids who are, you know, playing sports, very active. Like, would they drink chocolate milk before or after? That kind of a thing.
Laura Thomas
Yeah, making sure that there are preferred foods at a meal or a snack time, because eating begets eating, right. So once we get kids started on eating, overcome that sort of like activation energy that they have sometimes, and if there’s enough of that preferred or safe food on the table, that lets them know, okay, I could fill up on just this if I need to, that’s going to reduce any apprehension or anxiety that they might be feeling at the table, which is going to help support their appetite again. Like, I guess there’s, it’s complicated. And without having more information, it’s it’s difficult to know what specific advice to give here. But yeah, I think making sure that there’s something like delicious at meals and snacks is a good starting point. But yeah, again, it’s another one where we would just need a little bit more information. But I think that point that they seem to be quite active, they seem to not have any other health concerns. There’s no worries about energy, that that tells me that they probably are getting enough and that they’re, they’re thriving. And I wonder again, as well, how much of this is a sort of like, expectations of what kids food and eating should look like versus the reality of the situation.
Kristen Scher
Right. Yeah, I think so.
Laura Thomas
All right. Let’s try this one last one, see how we get on. My daughter is four and a half. I’ve always given her a wide range of foods, and she ate them when she was little. Over the last year, she has stopped eating. She says she doesn’t like anything, even foods she used to love both at home with wider family and with her lovely child minder. She eats almost nothing at mealtimes, and brings a full packed lunch home from nursery. She doesn’t ask for alternative foods and doesn’t say she’s hungry or asks for snacks. She always, always eat sweet things, pancakes with syrup, cake sprinkles, for biscuits, for biscuit decorating, when they’re available, though she’s not obsessed and doesn’t overly ask for them. I’m trying to hold my nerve and trust her to eat intuitively. I never pressure or even comment on it. But I’m so confused and wonder whether I should be more proactive and keeping her diet varied. Is this a phase or will it be an enduring pattern? I have been a very fussy eater since a child, my daughter doesn’t see this, which adds to my worry. PS she’s growing well, hasn’t lost weight, and I have no concerns about her health.
Kristen Scher
Okay, well, good. She answered my question at the end. Is she growing? Is she happy? Is she you know, has energy?That feels like she’s getting enough. Did she say that she’s picky, the parent is picky and the child doesn’t see it?
Laura Thomas
Yeah, so this was like a key piece of information for me. Not because, you know, the, the parent has like in any way, shape or form caused what’s going on with this child. But from the perspective of like, if you have clear likes, dislikes, sensory preferences, whatever it is, that is playing into your so called picky and I fucking hate that term., we all know that at this point, but like, into your, you know, preferences around food, then, like there’s a genetic component to that, we know that that child is going to have a similar experience. So think about, thinking about what was helpful for you what was unhelpful for you, which, from, from what I hear from people who have had, you know, like ARFID or another, you know, restrictive, or another feeding disorder, that the worst thing that anyone could do is put pressure on you to eat a particular food that is going to potentially lead to dysregulation or a meltdown or something else along those lines. So I’m just, I guess what I’m saying is, to that parent is thinking about what was helpful and supportive for you in your eating is, is maybe likely going to be something that’s helpful and supportive for this kiddo as well.
Kristen Scher
Yeah. I love that. I also think, you know, when they’re talking about feeding their kid a large variety of foods, are they also eating at the same mealtime? Are they eating the same foods that they’re offering their kid? Or because of their own picky eating, are they getting one meal, and the kid is getting this, you know, rainbow variety meal? That, you know, that can pose some problems to if you’re eating different things at the same meal. And are you eating the delicious things and presenting lessified versions to the kiddos like I, you know, lentil muffins are not as delicious as muffins with, you know, flour and butter and sugar. So, oftentimes, I find that parents are willing to feed their kids something that if offered to them, they’d be like, Oh, I don’t eat them or Oh, that doesn’t taste good. So checking to make sure that the foods that you’re offering are in fact, you know, palatable, yummy, a good texture, and seeing if that changes things, because they did focus so much on variety. And that’s not really kids specialty. So kind of, you know, do you notice what they do? Like, and can you, you know, I’m not saying narrow it down, but just double check that what you’re serving is yummy?
Laura Thomas
Yeah, yeah. 100%. Agree. I do think based on what we have been given here, that this probably does warrant a conversation with a professional, just to get to the bottom of exactly what’s going on here. And, you know, the other thing that occurred to me was that this, this parent said, that, you know, that this, this child is gravitating towards things like pancakes, for instance. And, um, in my mind, a pancake is a really balanced option for a kiddo to eat, you know, if it’s made with white flour, it’s fortified with iron and calcium, your eggs in there providing protein and some fat, you know, depending on if they have any, like fruit with the toppings. You know, that could be a really balanced meal. And even on its own without toppings. Yeah, it’s, you know, it’s a pretty solid meal right there. So again, where has maybe diet culture infiltrated and skewed our perception of what is an appropriate food for a kid to eat? So yeah, that’s something that I would just I would just put out there that parents get really, really stressed out when their kids are only eating beige foods. But actually, beige foods provide a lot of nutrition and energy. So yeah, I’ve actually got a post about that, that I’ll link to in the show notes. Because I think that that might, you know, sometimes what parents need is just a little bit of reassurance that actually this kid is meeting their nutritional requirements, which it sounds like this this one is, but there might be some gental strategies that we can use to support them in diversifying the variety of food that they eat. But that’s, that’s got to be child led, it’s got to be done in a way that is, you know, supportive of their sensory preferences. Not trying to fix them or cure them of anything. And yeah, that is done in a really gentle way that plays to the long game rather than some sort of quick fix.
Kristen Scher
Yeah 100%. Yeah, I forgot about all the sweet stuff like yeah, if they’re, if they’re gravitating towards sweets, that’s, serve it.
Laura Thomas
Yeah. Well, because this parent says that they’re not eating anything. But then they say they’re growing well, hasn’t lost weight, and I have no concerns about health. So, they’re eating something. What are they eating? And, you know, how can we use that as the base to build on?
Kristen Scher
Yeah, totally makes sense.
Laura Thomas
All right. I think we did it.
Kristen Scher
I think we did it!
Laura Thomas
Yeah. And we just about stuck to an hour, I think.
Kristen Scher
Yeah, yeah.
Laura Thomas
So Kristen, I want to just thank you so so much. It’s so great to have you back so soon. And I don’t know, maybe we’ll get you back a third time to do another Q&A. Because this is fun.
Kristen Scher
It is fun. I love that we do kind of we, we have similar ideal, ideas, similar
Laura Thomas
Like philosophies, ideals.
Kristen Scher
Philosophies, and then we noticed different things. So I like that together our powers combined, it’s been great.
Laura Thomas
It’s been really fun. And yeah, I appreciate that we have slightly different perspectives. But yeah, that together kind of builds a more complete picture of what’s going on. With all of these, yeah, I would love to dig in and like, do a full assessment. Like, I’m so nerdy with that stuff and like, get into all the detail because people don’t even realise that like, things like birth trauma, and you know, those early experiences around feeding or breastfeeding or not breastfeeding, or introducing solids and weaning, and like gagging, and choking and all of that stuff, all of the these like early experiences that we have around feeding our kids, all can play into what’s going on when they’re seven, eight. And you know, in the toddler years, in the preschool years, in the early school years, like it all plays in. So that’s why, like, for me at least, doing that really in-depth assessment is so important. But I hope that we were still able to provide something even without, you know, having that that whole background. So,
Kristen Scher
And food allergies too, my daughter has a lot of food allergies. And it’s amazing how much that comes into play, especially with variety and stuff that like, when you’re limited, when you have to be limited and some foods seem unsafe like that’s gonna change a whole thing like, nursery or something where, anyway, we could do a whole episode on food allergies.
Laura Thomas
Honestly, yeah, that’s a whole other thing. I can’t even like wade into that space because it’s just like, too terrifying. Anyway, I really, really enjoyed this conversation. I hope it’s been helpful for folks. Let everyone know one more time where they can find you.
Kristen Scher
Yes, @embodiedkiddos on Instagram. Embodiedkiddos.com is my website.
Laura Thomas
Yay, thank you so much, Kristen.
Kristen Scher
Thank you, Laura. That was so fun.
Laura Thomas
All right, team. That’s this week’s show. If you’d like to learn more about today’s guest, then check out the show notes in your podcast player, or head to laurathomasphd.co.uk for more details or the full transcript from today’s episode. Big thanks to Joeli Kelly for editorial and transcription support. And if you need to get in touch with me then you can email hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk or find me on Instagram @bub.appetit. And if you enjoyed today’s episode, then you can help the show reach more people by subscribing on your podcast player and sharing it with a friend. Alright team. I will catch you next Friday with a brand new episode. See you there.
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