HEYO – look who’s back on the pod!
Tally first shared her journey with us back in 2019 {listen to that here}. Since then she’s published two books and completely shaken up the fitness industry, challenging the notoriously weight-centric, aesthetics focussed industry to move in ways that feel joyful and to prioritize rest (and not feel guilty about it!). She also joined us in 2021 to break down the principles of Intuitive Movement {you can listen to that here}.
This episode was recorded back in January as part of a live Q+A we did (before things got weird). I decided to save this episode to share with you on International No Diet Day because it felt like the perfect way to celebrate!
In this episode we cover:
- The difference between exercise and intuitive movement
- How we can approach rest without feeling guilty
- Why I hate the daily mile in schools
- Ableism in the fitness space
- How to know if movement is motivated by self-care or coming from a place of wanting to control your body and your weight
This is such a fun episode – Tally is a dream. If you enjoy this conversation then please don’t forget to share and keep the conversation going over on our socials!
Show Notes:
Follow Laura on Instagram | Twitter
Follow Don’t Salt My Game on Instagram
Laura’s Website
Buy a copy of Just Eat It | How to Just Eat It
Sign up for a Learn with LCIE Course
Buy an Intuitive Eating friendly guide to managing different health concerns
Edited by Joeli Kelly
Follow Tally on Instagram
Listen to the Train Happy Podcast
Buy Train Happy | The Train Happy Journal
Check out Louise Green and her Size Inclusive Training Academy courses
Check out the fitness app “joyn”
Get a copy of The Wisdom of Your Body by Hilary McBride
Transcript:
Tally Rye
I always encourage people to get more playful with it, bring the fun in, even if that’s just putting music on your phone or whatever, and just dancing around your kitchen, that can be a really great way to heal that inner child, because so much of what we’re carrying around as adults is stuff we’ve picked up in our childhood. And one of the best things you can do for that child and to explore that joy and kind of find that freedom and feel more connected with your body is to do what that inner child wants to do.
Laura Thomas
Hey, team, welcome back to Don’t Salt My Game, where we are having conversations with game changers who are flipping diet culture on its head. I’m Laura Thomas. I’m a Registered Nutritionist who specialises in intuitive eating and anti-diet nutrition. And I’m also the author of two books, Just Eat It and How to Just Eat It. So if you’re listening to this episode on the day that it drops today is International No Diet Day, Happy International No Diet Day, doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. But hey, it’s a great day to celebrate. And I just thought that today’s guest was the perfect antidote to diet culture actually recorded this episode A little while back, but I wanted to save it to release it today. We’re gonna get to that conversation in just a second. But first, I wanted to share a special little no diet day offer with you.
So I’m running a flash sale on all of the Learn with LCIE courses, the continuing professional development courses, including my applying intuitive eating and non diet approaches in practice course, which is a super practical overview of how to work with the principles of intuitive eating, with your clients in your nutrition practice, how to assess them, it gives you tools and resources that you can use in your practice. And we cover how to move past common obstacles and sticking points that you often face when you’re doing Intuitive Eating work. Or if you are a seasoned Intuitive Eating practitioner and you wanted to go a bit deeper, our nutrition counselling courses cover essential counselling skills like CBT, ACT, motivational interviewing, it covers trauma informed care and unpacking your own internalised anti fatness. It covers how to support clients with self compassion and embodiment, plus lots more tools. With all of these courses, you can also join our monthly community q&a, where I answer questions that you have submitted. And this month, that’s going to be on the ninth of May. So if you sign up now you still have time to join for this month’s q&a. And also just a note for anyone who has ever bought a Learn with LCIE course, you are welcome to join that q&a and submit your questions even if you took the course like two years ago. So for anyone who would like to join, the link is included within teachable, so you should be able to just log in and find that. It’s also available on playback too. So if you miss the live recording, you can still watch that back. But anyway, if you were thinking of signing up for one of the Learn with LCIE courses, then why not take advantage of 50 pounds off with the code, nodietday50. So that’s no diet day, and then the numbers five and zero. And I’ve put that code in the show notes and link to teachable and that offer will be available for 48 hours only. So until midnight on the eighth of May 2022. And it’s also valid on bundled courses, which are already discounted, so like it’s an extra good deal. As always, if you need student pricing or equity pricing, then please reach out to hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk and we’ll be happy to give you a code. And just to say again, that discount is the discount code is nodietday50 and it’s in the show notes if you want to have it for reference. All right. Let’s get back to the show.
Today I am speaking with the always delightful Tally Rye. All about intuitive movement, which I thought was just the perfect conversation for international no diet day. For the maybe two of you. I don’t know who don’t know who Tally is. She is a personal trainer who has been on her own journey with food and body image and found intuitive movement as a tool for healing her relationship with food and her body. And she has now written two books on the topic, Train Happy and The Train Happy Journal. I’ve linked to both of those in the show notes. They’re really lovely resources. So if you have a tricky relationship with exercise, then I really recommend them. So this was actually a podcast that we recorded way back in January 2022. So feels like a long time ago now. And I just wanted to acknowledge that things have changed so much since then, both in terms of LCIE, but also in terms of the wider conversation around Health at Every Size, and white supremacy culture. And I kind of wondered how different this conversation might be if we recorded it now versus back in January? I don’t have an answer to that necessarily, but I just wanted to give that context. This is also recorded as part of a Live podcast where Tally interviewed me for her podcast about feeding kids. And then I interviewed her about intuitive movement. And if you wanted to listen to my interview on the Train Happy podcast then I’ve linked to that in the show notes. The other thing about this conversation is that we recorded it with a live audience. I say a live audience, it was over zoom because Omicron infections were really high at that point, and we didn’t want to jeopardise people’s health. So we held it online. And all that was just to say that you’ll hear us answer some questions from the audience and invite them into the conversation too. We cover lots of great stuff in this episode, things like the difference between exercise and intuitive movement, how we can approach rest without feeling guilty. I go off on one about the daily mile in schools, we talk about ableism in the fitness space, and how to know if movement is motivated by self care or coming from a place of wanting to control your body and your weight. So lots of really interesting themes coming up in this episode and something a bit different than we have been talking about over the past couple of weeks. I really hope you enjoy it. And as always, I’d love to hear what you think. You can find me on Instagram @bub.appetit or @dontsaltmygame . Alright, team, here’s Tally.
Tally, it would not be an episode of Don’t Salt My Game if we didn’t start with a little quick fire action. So I’m going to ask you a question. And you’re going to tell me the first thing that comes to mind. Are you ready?
Tally Rye
Okay. I’m so bad at quick fire anything but okay.
Laura Thomas
It usually takes like the first ten minutes of the episode. Okay, guacamole or hummus?
Tally Rye
Guacamole.
Laura Thomas
What book are you reading right now?
Tally Rye
It’s been about a year and I’m still reading Barack Obama’s recent book. It’s about three books deep and I’m about one book in so, let’s say that.
Laura Thomas
What do you mean it’s three books deep as in it’s like?
Tally Rye
It’s huge. It’s like 600 pages long. And it’s just gathers dust on my bedside table and then every so often, I must read that book.
Laura Thomas
Fair, taking your time. What is your favourite kitchen utensil?
Tally Rye
Tongs. Very satisfying a tong.
Laura Thomas
Good answer, I like that. I don’t think we’ve had that before. What is your hidden talent?
Tally Rye
I don’t think it’s hidden but I can sing and I obviously went to drama school for that. So it’s not that hidden but I don’t know if people listening would know that I can do that.
Laura Thomas
Well, that’s why I’m thinking is hidden. Should we bring it out into the light right now?
Tally Rye
Maybe not right now. But I love karaoke.
Laura Thomas
Okay, next time we do an actual in person event I want to hear you sing. She’s rolling your eyes at me for anyone who can’t see right now. Um, would you rather have teeth for toes are toes for teeth?
Tally Rye
Teeth for toes or toes for teeth? Teeth for toes? Teeth for toes. I can eat like normally then. Imagine eating but you have toes to try and chew your food. It’s not gonna work. But if I had teeth for toes then I’m sure we could make it work.
Laura Thomas
Right, okay. There’s a logic there I think. Shag, marry, kill Queer Eye cast.
Tally Rye
Oh, I’m gonna marry Jonathan. It goes without saying, gonna marry Jonathan. I’m going to shag Tan and controversially because everyone says Antoni is their favourite, but I’d say he’s my least favourite.
Laura Thomas
So you’re gonna kill the furniture man.
Tally Rye
Yeah, I forgot about that. But he’s not, I don’t, I don’t like
Laura Thomas
Oh 100% I would kill Bobby.
Tally Rye
No because Bobby, no, Bobby is the most underrated one. He gets the least screen time and he does the biggest job. Justice for Bobby. That’s how I feel about it.
Laura Thomas
Okay, and just on a personal note. Do you know the answer to today’s Wordle because I cannot get it?
Tally Rye
I have only discovered this app through going on the other app Tik Tok. No, I don’t play the game. And no, I will never play the game.
Laura Thomas
Okay, you say that now, but let’s revisit this when the podcast episode actually comes out. Okay, so we have been doing a special crossover Live episodes of Don’t Salt My Game and Train Happy. So we’ve just for the past hour recorded Tally’s Train Happy podcast where she was interviewing me. So if you haven’t already heard that, head over to the Train Happy podcast, I’m assuming that you’re gonna get your episode up before me that’s probably just how it’s gonna work. And now it’s my turn to interview Tally. So the last time that we had you on the, on this podcast, Tally, my book had just come out. But now your second book has just come out. it’s the Train Happy Journal. Can you tell us all about the journal?
Tally Rye
So the Train Happy Journal was almost called How to Train Happy and then Laura came out with a the journal called How to Just Eat It. And I said to my publishers, we can’t do that. This is blatant copycat at that point.
Laura Thomas
I would have loved for you to have that conversation with me.
Tally Rye
Well I had like independently had said, it should just be called How to Train Happy, like, that’s obvious, because that’s what it is. That’s essentially what the journal is. But yeah, then you you beat me to it. So that didn’t happen. But the journal is the part two of my first book Train Happy. But I should say that you do not need to read Train Happy to enjoy the benefits of the journal. It helps massively, but it’s not a requirement. And so the journal is, like I said, is the how to of how to implement intuitive movement into your relationship with moving your body. And so this in the journal, we recap the principles of intuitive movement that we spoke about in Train Happy. And then we move through a 30 day journaling challenge to help you kickstart your intuitive movement journey. And so each day gives you a new task, questions to reflect on that are going to slowly peel back the layers of your relationship with exercise, I want to say very clearly that at the 30, you know, on day 30, it’s likely that it’s not going to be over for you. And you’re going to have to continue after that. But I hope that people could almost go back to the beginning and keep doing the activities and keep thinking and reflecting on those questions far beyond those 30 days. It’s just when often people said to me, I really like this intuitive movement, but I’m not sure how I can put it into my life. This is the place to start. And so we work through each principal, through different tasks. Some of my favourites include, I ask questions about who you are, and I ask you to tell, to write down about who you are. And you know what’s important to you, and what you’re proud of about yourself, and you know, what things you like about who you are as a person, which seems kind of odd to relate that to exercise. But it’s really a huge part of that bigger piece of detaching your worth from what you look like and how you exercise and what your body looks like as a result of exercise. And it’s really about starting to reframe exercise as a celebration of who you are and what you’re capable of, rather than what it could supposedly do to your body. And I say that in quotation marks. And we go through, we talk about emotions, we talk about exercises we enjoy doing, activities we might be interested in, broadening our horizons, breaking down workout rules, all of it.
Laura Thomas
I love it. And it’s such a beautiful book. I know that’s not what it’s about. But it’s just so, it’s so gorgeous, and illustrations that you have in it are representing all kinds of movement, rather than, and kind of just like breaking the mould of what exercise should look like or what it can look like. And actually one of the questions that someone sent in, they weren’t able to attend tonight. But this is a question from Katie. And she wanted to know what the difference between exercise and intuitive movement is. And I thought that’s like a really great place to start for anyone who’s new to the concept of intuitive movement. So can you answer that for us to start?
Tally Rye
Yes. So exercise is and I will, okay, let’s start with I will, I will use the word exercise to talk about moving your body. But really, I prefer to use the word movement, because I think it can encompass things greater than, you know, what we consider to be a workout or what people do in the gym. And so exercise is using that kind of formal act of moving your body, I think it’s been massively co-opted and taken advantage of and very much bought by diet culture. And so that exercise in the terms of diet culture is something you do to lose weight and to change your aesthetic and to get before and after photo. And intuitive movement is really a process of reclaiming that back and getting exercise on your own terms. And so, for those who may have had a difficult relationship with exercise. Maybe it’s very tied to your, to restriction and to punishment and to you know, a time when you weren’t friends with your body and when you wanted to change it. And you may want to change your language and say like me using the word exercise right now, it still has too many old connotations and diet culture connotations. And I might want to change my language to use the word movement, so that it can not only dissociate itself from diet culture, but that it can broaden what that term means. And so I kind of think movement, to me is everything from gardening, to roller skating, to climbing to dancing, to doing CrossFit, that is all movement, it’s all moving your body. And so I think, for a lot of people who are trying to heal their relationship with, with exercise, calling it movement can really help take the sting out of what, you know, what diet culture and exercise has been.
Laura Thomas
I think that shift in language, like you say, from exercise to movement, I prefer to use movement as well, because exercise feels like punitive and punishing, and like, just like a chore almost. Whereas movement, I think, sounds so much more freeing, and it can help us just like, zoom out on all of the ways that we can move our body. And I don’t know, there’s something about it that inherently feels kind of more joyful. And I think this is especially true, being a parent now and having a toddler who just like, moves in all these really fascinating ways. And it’s so cool to see that connection that he has with his body. And he’s not there like, this is true for food as well, like counting steps or calories or whatever. He’s just moving in a way that feels really organic and playful. And I just think about that all the time about how can we bring more like, first of all, where how do we lose this? Where do we lose this? And how can we bring more of that back into our lives? I feel like it’s not really a question. It’s more just like
Tally Rye
A discussion point.
Laura Thomas
Yeah.
Tally Rye
Well, I like what you said about exercise. And I think for a lot of people is still associated with the chore. I personally can use the term exercise very neutrally, because it’s, you know, I have
Laura Thomas
Claimed it,
Tally Rye
As an individual reclaimed it, it’s a word. It’s just a, you know, a way to describe moving your body. But I, like I said, I completely appreciate and encourage people to change the language, if they’re in that process of redefining what it is for them. Secondly, yes. When did we start? You know, when did running around the playground turn into going for, you know, a 5k? When
Laura Thomas
I can tell you when, I’m sorry, can I like
Tally Rye
Is it cross country at school?
Laura Thomas
Well, no, I was writing about this the other day. The fucking daily mile? Can we talk about the daily mile?
Tally Rye
Yes, I know, the daily mile. Yes, I I know. See, I think that daily mile could be a great opportunity. And I think and I imagine, it will depend from school to school to teacher to teacher, how that daily mile is portrayed and received, you know, is it like, you know, how many silly walks can we do on the daily mile today, who can skip the most and who can dance around and who can, you know, make it fun. And rather than you must run this mile, you cannot stop, you’re not allowed to stop. And I think, I actually think with all different forms of exercise, and moving your body, it’s objectively neutral, but it’s how we talk about it, think about it, explain it to people, you know, motivate people, it’s all about that intention behind why you’re doing it as to what makes it feel punishing, and prescriptive and punitive. And so, I think if you’re a teacher who says, you know, you’re using language about bodies and saying like, this will keep me slim, or this is burning calories and it’ll burn your energy and blah, blah, blah, then that is going to be starting to plant those diet, culture seeds, young and children, if you’re able to say, and maybe not call it the daily mile, but call it the daily move or something and say, you know, we’re going to move today and let’s skip around the playground, like who can do the silliest walk, who can, you know, whatever else and make it, make it an opportunity for play and exploration of movement. It could be a great opportunity to introduce movement to people. But it’s like how do you word it? How do you present it? And I think that’s often where where we kind of go wrong with language around fitness and movement in general, because it’s either about changing your body changing your appearance, and you know, it could be an opportunity to say like this really supports your mental health, because this can really boost your mood, this can help you be focused for the day, you know, whatever it’s, I think, yeah, we need to allow for that. And we also, in that context need to say that, you know, sometimes if you might have a student come to you and say, I really, you know, I’m really not feeling it today, or, like I’m, and we need to allow space for rest within that as well and allow children to listen to their bodies and, and rest if they need to. And so it’s not like, you know, I’m thinking of like PE teachers at school, when I was at school who were like, Come on, don’t quit, keep going. But there’s actually an opportunity to get children to start listening to their bodies.
Laura Thomas
I’m a lot less forgiving of the daily mile. So I just want to back up for a second for anyone who doesn’t know who’s listening, maybe not in the UK, or just doesn’t have anything to do with kids. And like, why would you know this, but the daily mile is a public health initiative that has been implemented into nurseries and schools with the intention and purpose of trying to reduce body weight. So that’s the underlying, you know, that’s where it’s coming from. And so, for me, I find it difficult like and I know there will be variation in terms of how it’s implemented from school to school. And I sure as shit hope that teachers are not forcing kids to do this, and like, making them do it against their will. So my experience with it is, I used to, my old flat used to back up onto a school. And the, so it looked over the playground. I always felt so creepy, looking out my living room window when the kids were outside, but like, they would do the daily mile every morning, and they would just be trudging round the playground in the pissing rain, with their school uniform and their jackets and their like school shoes on. And I just contrast that with the play times that they had where okay, they were still wearing their school uniform and stuff. But like the auxiliaries would like host little dance parties, and they would have music blaring, they’d have hula hoops, and they’d be like, throwing balls and running around. And my feeling is like, why do we have to force them to move in a certain way, when if we just provided the opportunity, which I think is kind of what you were saying Tally, like, if we provide them with the opportunity for open ended play, they would move their bodies in, in whichever way felt, you know, natural to them, rather than having to like, do some sort of like forced type of movement. And I just think, you know, we this is, this is kind of on my mind, because of the conversations I’ve been having lately, but it’s, to me, it feels really disembodying to tell a child to move in a particular way. And I think that that’s also true of when we tell kids at the table to like, sit properly, or sit still or sit nice, like, it’s all part of this like spectrum of how we tell people how to move their bodies. And like, so for me, that’s where that like initial disruption. I mean, there are other things. But yeah, that’s why I’m a bit less forgiving.
Tally Rye
I feel like you’ve had probably a more observation of this daily mile than I have. I’m vaguely aware of it. And I think, like I think what you’re saying is also true. And I think yeah, I think for some people, for some children, it might be a positive thing for some children might be a really negative thing. And how do we differentiate between that it’s really hard to find one blanket thing for all people and so I you know, wouldn’t it be fun if it was just instead of like this walk, they were allowed an extra playtime, you know, that would make more sense. And the same time, I mean, when I was at school, we were obsessed playing Bulldogs. I don’t know if you played Bulldogs.
Laura Thomas
Didn’t that like get banned at a lot of schools?
Tally Rye
That’s how old I am. I don’t know. But that was, I just remember we used to do all sorts of dance routines and all sorts and there was just, you know, we were always sort of moving about and outdoors and stuff. So I think, you know, there’s ways to introduce it. But like I said, I think it will largely be down to the experience that the teacher and the schools provide for the children and like trudging in the rain and your coat is probably not going to be the same thing as you know, everyone doing a conga around the playground, which is personally like if I was a teacher, we’d be doing conga, we’d be doing hopscotch, we’d be doing skipping. Hokey cokey-ing. Yeah, there’s just so, you know, you can I’m sure if they have to do every day it’s like, after a week, you’ve run out of ideas. But, you know, I think there’s ways you can, you can make it. You could, there’s potential, like I said if it’s coming with that intention of like control the children’s weight, control the children’s activity, that can be tough. And you know, I only have compassion for teachers who feel under so much pressure as it is.
Laura Thomas
Totally. Yeah, they have a tonne on their plate. So kind of, we talked about this idea of the difference between exercise and intuitive movement and is kind of somewhat subjective, I suppose. And then kind of this idea of where we can, where things kind of disconnect and start to go wrong and how we kind of unlearn I suppose those more embodied ways of moving, what else do you think contributes to that? You mentioned, like, PE at schools? Did you want to unpack that a little bit more? Or is there is there something else?
Tally Rye
Yeah, I think PE at school can be tough. I mean, I say this is, especially through secondary school, did everything I could to avoid PE didn’t do any sports wasn’t, that was not my thing. And actually, the one thing that got me into moving my body was dancing. That was my only way in. And I didn’t discover that until late in my teens, but that was something I really enjoyed. And I wish it was more of an offering. And I do you know, I’ve spoken to PE teachers since who have kind of said, we do try, try and do so many different things for students beyond just doing, you know, like netball, and badminton, or whatever it is. Because if that’s not your thing, then it’s hard to find a way into movement and find what feels good. But I also think it is that narrative that starts yelling, and I think it’s like something things we see in media, what you read in magazines about exercise, you know, often it’s equated to calories burn, and you know, what food you can eat to like, burn off on the treadmill, or whatever it is. And if you’re watching movies, you know, even from a young age, exercise is often you know, something people do to achieve body transformation, I’m thinking when I was younger was like Legally Blonde, when does Elle work out and what’s exercise representation in that movie, it’s to look hot, she says to you helped me drop a dress size to Brook Wyndham. And, you know, that’s where we start to learn that Oh, exercise equates to changing your appearance and changing your weight. And so these seeds are planted all through your, you know, childhood into your teens, and you kind of stop playing, and then you start doing classes, and then it’s in the gym. And it’s, you know, whatever else. And I always encourage people, like, get more playful with it, bring the fun, even if that’s just putting some music on your phone or whatever, and just dancing around your kitchen, that can be a really great way to heal that inner child, because so much of what we’re carrying around as adults is stuff we’ve picked up in our childhood. And one of the best things you can do for that child and to explore that joy and kind of find that freedom and feel more connected with your body is to do what that inner child wants to do. So that can be really individual to the person for me, it’s singing and dancing, like, get me doing that and I’m happy as Larry and it really feels like my inner child is really happy. For other people it can be you know, they loved horses, and they want to do horse riding or, you know, they they really enjoyed swimming so they go swimming, like maybe that was one of your things like that’s maybe why you enjoy going to the lido.
Laura Thomas
I did not like swimming,
Tally Rye
Did you not?
Laura Thomas
I’m like trying to think of any exercise that I liked as a kid. But I do love this idea that you’re bringing of connecting to your inner child. And the key word again, for me was play. And yeah, just love the idea of just throwing on some Beyonce or whatever it is and just like throwing shapes in the kitchen. That is definitely something that happens a lot in our household now that Avery is starting to like, get into music a little bit more. It’s mostly like Sesame Street at the moment, but my hope is that it will evolve.
Tally Rye
And they have some bangers, I’m sure.
Laura Thomas
Seriously though? Like out of all of the shitty kids music Sesame Street is the least annoying. C is for cookie is a banger, just putting it out there. I have one more question that is kind of slightly a selfish question. And then I want to open it up to the audience. I have some questions written down, or you’re welcome to ask them or type them in the chat box, whichever you’d prefer. But selfishly, just because this is a question that comes up, which is how can I tell if I’m exercising for my own enjoyment rather than from weight loss? Because when those two things have been conflated for such a long time, like it’s really difficult to tease apart, okay, what’s my intention behind this? Do I really enjoy this do like, you know, sometimes we even say like it’s worth taking a complete break from exercise sometimes. So like, what were your thoughts on that?
Tally Rye
Yeah. Do you enjoy the workout because in the depths of your mind, it makes you feel less guilty about going and eating pasta for dinner, you know? So that’s something I think about all the time. Not me personally. But I think about that question all the time. And, you know, that is the in essence, what we’re trying to do with intuitive movement is decouple it from diet culture and decouple it from those biting experiences, and really find the reasons intrinsic to you as to why you choose to move your body, and how it benefits you as an individual, and not how it may be feeding into societal expectations, and body and beauty standards. And so it’s a big question. And my key answer would be, it’s all about shifting that intention behind the why. What is your why? Why are you choosing to move, and you’re like, is it because it’s diet culture? If it’s still diet culture, you might want to rest, I always recommend, if you have, say, especially if you’ve been had an eating disorder, or you have had a very disordered relationship with a certain form of exercise, and it’s been a big part of your, your diet history. So take as an example, running might be the thing that you did in a more disordered time in your life. Don’t run, give running a break, don’t do that, until you’re able to neutralise everything. Don’t do that. Because, you know, go and explore something else, try and do activities, try and move your body in new ways, in ways that you can explore in the present view, rather than in ways that have been linked to restriction in the past. And that, you know, that will be different for everyone. And secondly, like I said, it’s, so you’re shifting that intention, and then you’re building those reasons that are internal to you. And so, in my book, Train Happy, I, we had a table of like, 30 benefits of moving your body that had nothing to do with your weight or appearance. And eventually, I’m not saying you internalise all those 30 benefits and go like, Oh, like, yeah, the, you know, osteoporosis is something I’m really passionate about, for myself, but it may well be, but what you can do is really start to note down what benefits you’re feeling as you’re moving. So when we’re, you know, exploring new forms of exercise, maybe you went and did a dance class, in the Train Happy Journal, or even just a notebook you have you can start writing down how did I feel before? How did I feel during? How did I feel after? What was that after feeling? Maybe you felt, you know, you did it in the morning, and you felt more clarity during the day, and you felt like your head was clearer. And so that is, you know, that starts going on your intrinsic motivation list. Oh, yeah, head felt clearer. Maybe you, you know, you decide to go and try and do like powerlifting. And you’ve like, lifted a really heavy weight, and you feel so strong, and badass. So like, how did you feel? Like that was really empowering, that moment felt really empowering to me, boom, add that on your intrinsic motivation list. And you can just start to build this bank of reasons why moving your body is important to you as an individual. And you’ll notice that a lot of the well diet culture itself is rooted in the external, it’s rooted in working out to look a certain way, to achieve an arbitrary number on the scale. It can often be rooted in choosing activities that you think that other people think you should do, rather than what you want to do. And it also means working out in a way that you want other people to perceive you exercising in a certain way, if that makes sense. So it gets stuck in like that self objectification element of, you know, working out and I’m thinking of going to the gym and choosing weights or choosing to do exercises, because you think other people might judge you, if you, if you did, you know, a more gentle option, or a slightly easier option. And all those sorts of things. There’s so many layers to that question. Like my best answer is, I don’t want to do a massive plug. But my best answer is the Train Happy Journal.
Laura Thomas
I’ll put it in the show notes. Don’t you worry. One thing that I wanted to pick up on that I think is so interesting, and it’s something that I’ve had to unpack with clients before in the past, which is this, you know, what, what you’ve invited people to do is to write down how they felt before, during and after exercise. And so often I hear this idea from clients like, well, I feel great after exercise. And I tried to like, unpack that a little bit with them, and sort of shift to well, how do you feel during exercise? Do you also feel great during exercise? Because to me, this suggestion of well I feel good after exercise, which I’m not dismissing because there’s there’s value in that. But it kind of distracts, I think from from how you feel during exercise. And to me it’s really linked to this idea of no pain, no gain, that we learn and internalised from diet culture. So yeah, I just wondered your thoughts on that, like, is like I feel great after at the expense of maybe during, is that like residual diet culture do you think?
Tally Rye
No, I don’t think it is. I think that, but I think there’s two parts to this answer. The first part is if you are brand new to working on your relationship with food, if you’re working through those stages of recovery, if you’re on that journey, then you may need to only do gentle joyful movement that does feel good in the moment. And that may be a really integral part to you reframing your relationship with exercise and shifting that pendulum. So I you know, I like to think of that pendulum as being the hard left, you’re in diet culture, it’s earn and burn, it’s no pain, no gain, it’s all of that stuff. To correct that we have to shift hard right into joyful movement only, gentle movement only, it may be rest for six months, a year, it could, you know, how ever long you need to rest and however long you need to reset. And then we come to this middle point. And this is really the cherry on the cake. And if you think about it in the context of intuitive eating, you talk about gentle nutrition as something you start thinking about the end. Well, this is the gentle nutrition piece of, of movement, this is what I call gentle movement. And it’s this idea that it’s not always going to be fun in the moment, it’s not always going to be enjoyable, it could feel physically really challenging, you will be out your comfort zone. But the intention behind what you’re doing is completely different, you feel completely different about what you’re doing, you know, and there is a point where it is going to feel like sunshine, rainbows and stuff, but that doesn’t, it doesn’t. And it might not be like that forever. And so when you get to a point where you feel ready, where the individual feels ready to start to challenge themselves a bit more, maybe they want to raise money for charity, and they’re gonna do, I don’t know, like, a whole day of, of dancing, you know, like a Zumbathon or something. They’re going to have to build their start stamina up and at points, that’s not going to be comfortable. So you’re going to have to train to build that up. And you’re gonna have to bring structure and you’re gonna have to bring routine in. And I think, I think that’s a part sometimes the disconnect between the fitness professionals, and those who are in intuitive eating, and like anti diet spaces of, of, understandably, intuitive eating and anti-diet professionals, saying, you know, like yoga only, it’s only yoga, it’s only gentle, you know, if you’re, you know, you because of course, that’s the hard reset. That is, that is a station on the journey. But the eventual end goal is to get you to a point where everything’s neutral, you can do stuff, sometimes you want to challenge yourself, sometimes you don’t, and all of its neutral, all of it’s okay, but like I said, that’s a very individual process really depends on the person’s history, and really depends on their own experience. But I know for myself, and you know, other people I speak to, that, they’re able to get to a point where they’re ready to challenge themselves again, and in the context of myself, being able to today, set a fitness goal for myself is the first time I’ve really set a fitness goal for myself, and probably like, in years, because I finally feel like I can do this without any guilt without any shame without any pressure, fully trusting myself and knowing myself to challenge my body whilst also being able to listen to it and step back when I need to and rest when I need to. And so like I said, depending on your history, it’s going to take its own period of time to get to that point. So I hope that gives that that’s the answer, the nuanced answer.
Laura Thomas
Yeah, no, I love that. And I think you’re right, it’s kind of it is, it is a lot like the gentle nutrition piece in intuitive eating where we can make choices and decisions about the food that we eat, to support our health and our overall sense of well being. And they may not be as delicious eating cookies all the time. But actually, you know, where you’re coming at it from a place of self care and looking for looking after yourself rather than from a place of like, being punitive and punishing, in the same way that you, yeah, that you’re approaching exercise. And it’s not to say that you never have the cookie just like it’s, it’s you also need rest days. And you also need to do like, by the way, like I object to the idea that yoga is easy. It’s hard. So, but yeah, I think the point there is looking at the intention and kind of coming to exercise, like uncoupling it from this idea that it has to be, like all or nothing. And I think that’s what you know, that’s what happens with gentle nutrition. And that’s kind of what’s happening with this gentle movement piece.
Tally Rye
It’s like you saying, are you going to eat doughnuts all day every day for the rest of your life? No. But that might be a stop on the journey. And then it’s finding that middle ground, it’s the same thing.
Laura Thomas
Yeah. I am conscious that we have quite a few questions in the chat that I want to read out and make sure that we like have some space for so I’m gonna read this question from Claire. Claire says, I’ve been noticing recently due to change in my own experience, how ablest the fitness industry is. Here, here. I am listening and have been forced to listen to my body more. And I love swimming, walking, classes and bar. I’ve been doing a lot of home workouts, which means I can modify workouts to suit my needs. But I missed group workouts and the camaraderie. Have you got any advice for dealing with instructors? They’ve had a few bad experiences so far in classes who seem to think responses of I can’t do this move, looking at your burpees and downward dogs, as an attitude or motivation problem? Have you got any recommendations of people to follow on social media in the accessible fitness space other than your wonderful self obviously? So sweet. I think this is such an important question. Do you have any thoughts about you know, ableism built into the fitness industry? And where, how can this person carve out a safe space for themselves?
Tally Rye
It’s certainly a massive issue. And I think in the context that you’ve spoken about with it being within the context of a class, and people think that you’re trying to make excuses, or, you know, it’s not. It’s a lack of education on the instructor’s part. Because we really do think that you know, when it’s kind of built in, you’re just being lazy, everyone’s just trying to, you know, you should be working as hard as possible, as much as possible. And often it’s rooted in our own ego as instructors, because we think that, you know, we want people to feel like whatever we’re doing is often like the hardest, most advanced, difficult thing, because then we’re good at our jobs. But actually, that’s not true. The skill set you need as a trainer is to listen, support, communicate work with, we are not the authority that we like to think we are. And so I have huge compassion for your experiences with being in an environment where you have felt judged and not listened to. And so I would say, we certainly need work within the industry. And I think there’s a part of communication where in the example of going to a class. If you’re able to, prior to class, have a conversation with the instructor and just say, Look, here’s the situation, X Y Z, they should ask you at the beginning, because I ask this at every class I teach. Do you have any injuries? Do you have anything I need to know about before we start this class? Any any conditions I need to know about? That is actually one of the basic questions you should be asking as a fitness instructor, it should be a given that everyone’s asking that, if they do, that’s your opportunity to say, you know, you know what’s going on with you. Second to that you are allowed to do whatever you feel is right for your body and you owe the instructor nothing. Please listen to your body at all times and do what feels right for you. One of my favourite people who speaks about this is Michelle Elman. Michelle was on my podcast discussing this. And she gave some great examples of when she felt that trainers weren’t listening to her and weren’t believing her. And I think that was the key point you were bringing up when believing you that you couldn’t do things and Michelle’s had numerous surgeries, numerous abdominal surgeries, that means certain things like planks and core work and stuff she needs to modify. And, you know, a lot of people didn’t believe her. And said, Oh, come on, you know, you’re being lazy. I think if you know, Michelle, you know, she’s a strong woman, and she, she’s gonna say it how it is. And she’s, she is able to make the decision to either leave a class that she feels that she’s not being supported, or have the dialogue in person. If you’re not as confident in those situations, I completely understand. But I think her work around boundaries, and also how that interlinks with this fitness environment is really important. And the conversation I had with her I always come back to that conversation because she really I think she’s really emboldened and empowers people to take control over their circumstance in those fitness, in those fitness environments. So I’d really encourage that, but like I said, it’s not a you issue. It’s a systemic issue that we need to work on within industry. And it’s something I can do with more education on. And it’s something, you know, we as an industry as a whole need more education on. I had Sophie Butler on my podcast in 2020, actually now, but she, you know, me being in my ableist world, you know, didn’t think about wheelchair access to the gym, didn’t think about if you leave certain equipment out then people can’t actually manoeuvre around the gym, didn’t think that if you leave certain equipment at a different height that’s not accessible for someone in a wheelchair, that they can’t access that. Those sadly, those were things that I was ignorant to. And, you know, it’s people and work like Sophie does, and she does a lot of work on disabilities and raising awareness on her page, she’s called @sophjbutler, really recommend everyone go follow her, recommend everyone follow Michelle Elman. And in terms of really great accessible stuff, I recommend the fitness app joyn. They do seated workouts, they do all sorts of stuff. And they’re brilliant at doing modified workouts, and you’ve got like a whole range of stuff there. So they are fab. And I’d also recommend for trainers listening, particularly going this is more speaking from the size inclusive angle. Louise Green, a Canadian trainer has created training for fitness professionals in how to work with people in larger bodies. And I think that’s really important piece as well. So I think it’s called SITA, size inclusive training academy. And if you search Louise Green, you’ll find her work. And she’s really trailblazing in that area as well.
Laura Thomas
I’ll make sure and link to all of those resources, like your podcasts and the app. and yeah, the training academy in the show notes so that other people can check those out. But that yes, very helpful answer totally. And I think something that I took from that is what you said right at the beginning how and it’s just like so endemic. And I feel like it’s connected to like capitalism and white supremacy and everything that is wrong in our world, this like culture of dominance, and how we just need to be like the biggest, the best, the most amazing and everything from the perspective of like, even within the fitness space, how it’s embodied with trainers just like trying to dominate the people in their classes. And like, why do we need to be pushing people to the limits, pushing people to the extremes? And yeah, just like riding them in order to have work out, why, why can’t we like, be more collaborative, and, like be partners in people’s workouts rather than being like, I’m the boss, you do, as I say, no pain, no gain, that kind of thing.
Tally Rye
So the way I reframe it for teaching a spin class, for example, is I start the class, obviously, by asking, Does anyone need to tell me anything? Then we get into the class, and I just always started off and say, Look, this is your workout, this is your body, you know yourself best. I’m gonna be here leading this class, join me when you feel good. If you need to take extra rest, take extra rest, I don’t care, you know yourself best. But I’ll be here when you’re ready, and wanting to join in. And it’s just a simple reframe. And it is actually not this big, difficult thing that we need to do. And so I hope that if there are trainers listening like, it’s actually easier than you think to make things feel, to make people feel more included. But also, you give them a sense of empowerment and trust in them, you know trust has been a big theme of what I’ve been talking about today. But if you can tell people like trust yourself, I’m not the I’m not the expert of you, you trust yourself, you do what feels right for you. And everyone’s happy in that environment. And it’s just a simple thing of just being really clear and communicative at the beginning, during as well. And really creating a no judgement environment. You know, sadly, I hear too many times people being on a bike and someone calling them out going, come on, you can work harder than that. As an instructor, we have no idea where you’ve been before that work. We have no idea what’s going on your life. We have no idea how your body’s feeling. How can we make those judgments? We shouldn’t. And, you know, I apologise that for making those judgments in the past, I just was literally parroting things I had seen other people say and that’s the thing is, you know, the training isn’t, isn’t too in depth. And so a lot of it is just copying and mimicking and parroting and regurgitating phrases you’ve heard, narratives you’ve heard. And also sadly, you’ve got a lot of people working in fitness who are dealing with their own relationships with food and exercise. So then they’re bringing that, their stuff to your workout, when they have nothing to do with you. But sadly, there’s a lot of projection going on as well. So all in all, we could all be good to just do our own thing. And once again, listen to our bodies.
Laura Thomas
It is and we need to back ourselves, we need to trust our instincts a lot more. Yeah, check in with ourselves, we, again, just constantly looking to other people to validate our experiences. And yeah, we would all be so much better off if we if we checked in with ourselves a little bit more. We have a couple more questions. I’m conscious that we’re about to go over time. So I think we’ll ask a couple more questions. But if you need to duck out, then yeah, feel free to go. Gia had a question. I know. Do you want to say it out? Or would you like me to read it?
Gia
I can. I can read it out? Or just ask it?
Laura Thomas
Yeah, just ask the question.
Gia
I like exercise, and I have a busy job. So I’m usually quite busy. And then every once in a while, I know I need to rest, but I sort of completely crash. And then sort of I give up on everything. So my rest looks like not getting dressed, not taking a shower, not doing the dishes, not tidying my house. And I just sort of lie on the couch and watch Netflix, which is nice for a while. And then at some point you you just feel lousy. And so rest for me, I feel I I find it a little bit difficult to accept that there are days that I don’t want to move and don’t want to go outside so that it’s not necessarily guilt, but just sort of find it hard to accept that. But also the rest itself, I know I need it, but it doesn’t feel very comfortable. So I was wondering, do you have any sort of tips on making it nicer, and sort of more of a self care experience than just sort of giving up on every, everything and sort of stop doing anything?
Tally Rye
Well, I feel you because I similarly, like to sometimes just abandon all responsibilities as an adult. And so I totally get that whole process. Firstly, I would say it’s the unconditional permission to rest bit, and that is all like, it really sets you up by having this feeling of a safety net. So that, you know, if in doubt, no matter what you can come back to rest. That’s like the base point, that you know that that is your foundation. And there is no judgement around that. And that’s the key part that we’re trying to work through with intuitive movement is taking away the self judgement, taking away the guilt, taking away the shame within that. And like Laura’s alluded to, like a lot of this is much bigger than talking about moving your body and our conversation around rest is so steeped in productivity, capitalism, you know, all of this need to hustle to be productive to constantly be doing something that is a huge pressure that we feel and you know, moving our bodies and exercising is one of the ways we often conform to the need to be productive. That’s a bigger conversation than I am, you know, equipped to talk about, but I would recommend a book by Caroline Dooner, it’s coming out, it’s called Tired As Fuck. And she is fab. I recently interviewed her for my podcast about said book. And she took like two years of rest, she calls it, and I just recommend just checking her out, she’s hilarious, and very good at weaving in the diet, culture parts of stuff as well. So it’s all all linked in with that. And then secondly, when it comes to how to make your resting nicer, just one of this kind of a simple journal task that we have in the Train Happy Journal is to kind of, I’ve kind of asked you some questions to sort of fill in the blanks of what your ideal rest day would look look like. For so many of us who fear rest day, who feel anxious and guilty about resting, whether it be from exercise, or just in general, we, you know, we kind of don’t know what to do with ourselves in that moment. So if you can create an idea of what that ideal looks like for you, what that day could be, and you know, it could be simply, you know, lying in your pyjamas all day, like whatever it is, you can figure out what it is for you that really supports you. And I think sometimes in conversations around talking around intuitive eating, certain things around a level of discipline, like discipline is a dirty word. And I don’t think sometimes always needs to be I think in the context of supporting your own self care and well being, in the context of rest for example, you know, one of the things that might be as like just having certain things that you can do throughout the day, whether even just be like just making sure I brush my teeth, you know, simple things like that. Knowing that a little bit of discomfort to kind of support that day is not always a bad thing sometimes. And I think of this in my own context of like, I got into such a habit over like various lockdowns, and then most recently over Christmas and isolations, and all sorts of having this morning scrolling habit, whereby I would wake up every day and scroll for like an hour, like it was bad. And I, you know, kind of get out of bed at like 9am and start to get ready. And it’s I love scrolling, like, I actually love it, it doesn’t make me feel bad to do now. I’m just laughing my head off at tiktoks. That’s all I’m doing. But I knew, I know that it completely set off my day, in the wrong way. I knew it was getting me on the backfoot it was getting me in a procrastination mindset. It was getting me, it got me where I just was almost like I was always chasing my tail. And then I was really anxious. And then, because I almost thrive off of you know, running a bit behind schedule, so that I’m running to meet deadlines and stuff and you know, it’s like two o’clock in the afternoon, you’re like I’ve not done anything. And you’re constantly doing that. And so rather than being in that state of like stress and anxiety that I was getting myself in every day, and then working way later than I wanted to, I’ve just decided, You know what, I can still scroll, I’m just going to scroll at 5pm once I’ve done my stuff. Like if I can just, that’s just a little bit of discipline I’ve had to put in my life, but it’s taken me to kind of have that chance to rest and be okay with it to be like, You know what, I’m ready to actually like, just, you know, be a bit like no, come on Tally. Come on, you know, the greater good, in the moment you love scrolling, but you know, the knock on effect it has for the rest of your day. So that’s just one example of how I suppose just sometimes just having a little word with yourself can benefit you in the long term so that when you’re resting, it’s truly resting rather than feeling like I’m faux resting, and actually, I feel more anxious as a result. Does that help?
Gia
Yeah, definitely. And I think, then it’s easy to think that sort of self care or being nice for yourself means saying yes to everything and sort of not forcing yourself to do anything that you may not really like at that moment. But that just a little bit of discipline may may help to actually have a much better, like much better day or, yeah, sometimes it’s good to force yourself to do just that little bit that you know, is good for you, or, you know, will make you feel better.
Tally Rye
It’s that pendulum swing we’ve been talking about, isn’t it? It’s like for me, I’ve gone in my reset mode, and I’m ready to slowly start putting things back in my life that I know are, like I said, like in the moment, like, you know, talk about intuitively or whatever, like intuitively in the moment, I love my morning scroll. I love it. But like I said, I just had to start to think bigger picture now. And I’m ready to do that. I’m ready to start thinking in that way. But probably last year, I wasn’t ready to do that. You know, so it’s just like figuring out when that’s right for you. And you know, sometimes just going like a hard no, like, like I said saying yes to all your sort of like urges in that way can be like a helpful tool to figuring out when it’s right I suppose. This is an example like we say of talking about when does your body want to move and rest in the context of exercise? Saying yes to rest all the time actually gets you to the point where like, no, actually no, I think I could move and I know that you know I can structure time within my day to make that happen. Because I think that would actually like help me feel better in my day. And I think that’s part of that gentle movement piece as well.
Laura Thomas
I don’t know if you follow the nap ministry on Instagram, Gia if you don’t already. Strong recommend for a follow because it will help you internalise grind culture and just slow down and they’re sort of like they have this rest is resistance kind of mantra, I suppose. And it’s yeah, it’s really helpful. So strong recommend following them.
Gia
I will check it out. Thanks.
Laura Thomas
We have a couple of questions tally. I want super fast, like lightning speed answers as much as you can. Okay, I’m going to cut you off after a minute. Okay, so this was a DM so I’m not sure if this person wants to remain anonymous. I’m not gonna say their name. But after a difficult relationship with exercise I want to reintroduce myself to movement, but without the programme or specific start or endpoint to work by as this makes me anxious. What tips does Tally have to help ease someone back into movement?
Tally Rye
A quick answer is the Train Happy Journal. The slightly longer answer is decouple it from diet culture. Expand your ideas of what you believe movement to be and what you think counts, deconstruct the rules you have around exercise and question where they came from, who told you them, and how you can challenge them. And then start exploring ways that you think you might enjoy moving. Make a list You know, this is another task in the in the journal, make a list of like five to 10 ways of moving your body that you find curious, that you’re just curious about, and slowly start trying them, and then reflect on them like, did you actually like it? It? Maybe it wasn’t for you. Maybe you thought you’d like roller skating and you actually hated it. Okay, cross that off the list. We’re not doing that one. And slowly just work your way down until you figure out what feels right for you. And then you’re ready to start maybe adding in structure and stuff. But and then obviously, the rest part we’ve talked about is really important, but that’s a short answer. Okay, cool.
Laura Thomas
And then Francesca asked, what diet culture red flags should you look out for when seeking a new PT? It’s such a good question.
Tally Rye
Well, I mean, any personal trainer that advertises before and after photos, asks you to step on the scale, wants to take your body fat percentage in the consultation, asks you about what you’re eating. It grinds my gears, that as personal trainers, we think we have any right to know what people are eating, you know, when they’ve never volunteered or asked you to ask. I have heard, I’ve heard this so much in the last few weeks of, what, what frustrates me as often as the clients, we can feel like we owe our personal trainer something, once again, I just want to reiterate, you owe your personal trainer, nothing, you are paying them, you are the customer, you are hiring them. So unfortunately, the dynamic of this whole like I’m your authority, I can tell you what to do means that often you end up feeling guilty for like needing to take a rest day or you know, having to cancel your session because you’ve got period pains, or whatever else and they make you feel guilty about it and feel like you can’t eat carbs that day. None of that should be going on within a PT client relationship. Other red flags, like I said would be basically any advice that is kind of making them the authority and you having to follow exactly what they’ve told you to do. It should be a collaboration, they should be working with you. And it should be you know, you should have good connection with them. And if you don’t you have every right to leave and find a new trainer.
Laura Thomas
Your boss, not them. Tally, this was so much fun to do like a live q&a. And it was lovely to like, see people’s faces. And thank you so much for yeah, just something I always really appreciate about you is is a your willingness to be wrong and to learn and to grow. It’s such an incredible trait. And I wish more people in this space would be like, oh shit, yeah, I was really wrong about this thing. Let me, let me learn some new stuff. Let me go away and do the work and come back. And you always sort of apologise as well like with the case around sort of maybe some of the things that you’ve said or done that have been ableist so like, always really super value that about you. But also the kind of layers and nuance that you bring to these conversations around fitness and just so glad that they’re, you know, you and I think you’ve given permission to a lot of other fitness professionals to push back against diet culture as well. So yeah, just so grateful that you’re here. Before we go, we’re gonna do that’s my jam. So at the end of every episode, my guests and I share something that they’ve been really into lately. It can be a book, be a podcast, show anything really, a snack? What do you have for us?
Tally Rye
I’m currently obsessed with tennis. I love tennis any day. But as we’re recording, it’s the Australian Open. If I’m honest, that’s what I’ve been obsessing over and I’ve not been doing anything else. When Andy Murray playing, when’s Emma Raducanu playing? I want to know about Nadal, I want to know about Djokovic situation. I find it all fascinating, I suppose. So I’ve been enjoying that. Been watching season two of Cheer. And if anyone’s pure escapism, and I can guarantee that it will be full of diet culture and full of probably everything that’s the antithesis of what I probably stand for and my values. Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is some of the most entertaining reality TV I’ve watched in a while. I love it. I really really enjoy it. But you really have to take it at face value. And I think, I think it’s really interesting when you’re able to watch those kinds of shows and see the fat phobic stuff and kind of just roll your eyes at it.
Laura Thomas
Did you watch Selling Sunset? And yes conversations around Christine.
Tally Rye
Oh my goodness, terrible.
Laura Thomas
Anyway, we don’t need to get into it, the whole thing.
Tally Rye
But you can kind of see it and I don’t know if you find this Laura, but anytime something like that comes on on the screen. My boyfriend like looks at me like oh my goodness, she’s gonna blow she’s gonna blow. You kind of get to a point where you’re able to just be like, oh, you know
Laura Thomas
Let it wash over you.
Tally Rye
You just have to, you just kind of have to.
Laura Thomas
Because that’s the thing, you can’t take everything on.
Tally Rye
You can’t and you know I think sometimes you have to know like, I know my values, I know what I say I can, you know, I’m able to use my platform to talk about what I’m talking about. And sometimes I just hope that, you know, our podcasts, our platforms are, you know, able to drown out some of the noise rather than try. Sometimes I think I can’t necessarily control what’s going on. But I can control what I put out there. And so you know, just try and put out an alternative, and hope that people discover that.
Laura Thomas
I love that. Yeah. My thing really quick before we go is, it’s a book is called The Wisdom of Your Body by Hilary McBride. It’s a book on embodiment. And yeah, just what it means to have a body, to be in your body, to live in your body. And it’s kind of a critique as well on the concept of body image, which, fundamentally, and I’m sure you’re gonna hear me talk a lot about this, and this series of the podcast, but fundamentally still objectifying, and embodiment is, is moving and shifting towards, like, really being in the body and that being the place that you’re kind of operating from rather than like, a this observer view that so many of us take of our bodies. So yeah, highly recommend. I’m not quite finished reading it, but really enjoying it. So I’ll link to that in the show notes. Alright, Tally. I need to go home and see to my baby. But before we go, can you tell us where people can find you?
Tally Rye
You can find me on social media, primarily Instagram and Tiktok @tallyrye. You can find my website tallyrye.co.uk. You can listen to the Train Happy podcast. We’re also on Instagram @trainhappypodcast. And I think that’s pretty much everything. Yeah.
Laura Thomas
Plug your book!
Tally Rye
Well, I have plugged it a few times. But you can get my book Train Happy and Train Happy Journal at all good bookstores if you ask for it.
Laura Thomas
I love that. And I will link to it in the show notes. And yeah, totally. It’s been so great to speak to you. Thank you, everyone who stayed all the way to the end. Thank you for your questions. Thank you for being here. Really value your contributions and your thoughtful questions. So thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed it. And hopefully we can all hang out again soon.
All right, team. That’s this week’s show. If you’d like to learn more about today’s guest, then check out the show notes in your podcast player, or head to laurathomasphd.co.uk for more details or the full transcript from today’s episode. Big thanks to Joeli Kelly for editorial and transcription support. And if you need to get in touch with me then you can email hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk or find me on Instagram @bub.appetit. And if you enjoyed today’s episode, then you can help the show reach more people by subscribing on your podcast player and sharing it with a friend. Alright team. I will catch you next Friday with a brand new episode. See you there.
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